thanks joseph


punchline to most: DIES


reminder of the LA Art Girls blog loc:

upcoming show curated by a friend, Kristin Calabrese:

Apocalypse Soon!! http://www.kristincalabrese.com/apocalypse/index.html

Hopefully I can complete some "cross words" for her show zine!
this is an odd little org that I met up with at the WeHo bookfair

"An Evening with Sandra Tsing Loh, in Conversation with
Digby Diehl"

Monday, November 21
Program begins at 7:30 p.m.
Reservations are mandatory

Departing from our usual formula, we are excited to host
Sandra Tsing Loh in conversation with Digby Diehl. Heard
regularly on KPCC, writer-performer-musician Loh is a
talented wordsmith who pens in-depth observances about
everyday occurrences transfigured into delicious rants. Loh
writes for many genres and has interesting experiences and
advice to share. No stranger to controversy, Loh was fired
from a radio commentator job over an un-bleeped obscenity,
which triggered her transformation into a free-speech and
First Amendment advocate.

Loh is currently appearing in her one-woman show, "Mother
on Fire," at the 24th St. Theatre. Previously, she was seen
in solo performance at the Geffen Playhouse in "Sugar Plum
Fairy." Her other shows include "Aliens in America," "Bad
Sex With Bud Kemp," and "I Worry."

Her books include "A Year in Van Nuys," "Aliens in
America," "Depth Takes a Holiday," and a novel, "If You
Lived Here, You'd Be Home By Now," which was named by the
Los Angeles Times as one of the 100 best fiction books of
1998. Her story, "My Father's Chinese Wives," received a
1997 Pushcart Prize and was featured in the 1999 Norton
Anthology of Short Fiction. She and her husband Mike
Miller also composed the music for Jessica Yu's documentary
short, "Breathing Lessons," which won an Oscar in 1998.

She has been a regular commentator on NPR's "Morning
Edition" and on Ira Glass's "This American Life." Her
weekly segment, "The Loh Life," is heard on KPCC, and her
monthly segment, "The Loh Down," is heard on American
Public Media's "Marketplace." Loh is also a contributing
editor for The Atlantic Monthly.

The evening will be hosted by acclaimed writer and critic
Digby Diehl. Diehl is one of the most trusted and
successful literary collaborators in America. He has
written, co-written, rewritten, researched, and edited more
than three dozen books. His book credits include:

* The forthcoming memoirs of Coretta Scott King;
* "Angel on My Shoulder," the autobiography of singer
Natalie Cole, and a Los Angeles Times #1 bestseller;
* "Million Dollar Mermaid," the New York Times bestseller
and critically acclaimed autobiography of actress Esther
* "Lost Honor," the sequel to "Blind Ambition," for Richard
Nixon's former White House counsel, John Dean;
* Pediatrician Fitzhugh Dodson's perennial bestseller, "How
to Parent;"
* "Soapsuds," written with soap star Finola Hughes;
* "Tales from the Crypt," the history of the popular comic
book, movie, and television series; and
* "A Spy for All Seasons," the autobiography of former CIA
officer Duane Clarridge.

The founding editor of the Los Angeles Times Book Review,
Diehl is a widely respected book reviewer and commentator.
He was the literary correspondent for ABC-TV's "Good
Morning America," movie critic and entertainment editor for
KCBS-TV in Los Angeles, and Hollywood correspondent for
the "CBS Morning News." He now offers regular book
commentary on KTLA in Los Angeles.

In addition, Diehl is an advisory board member and former
president of the P.E.N. American Center West, a founding
member of the National Book Critics Circle, and, not least,
was on IWOSC's first Advisory Board in 1983.

DATE: Monday, November 21

WHEN: 7:30 p.m. SHARP TO 9:00 p.m. (networking follows the

WHERE: Veterans Memorial Building, 4117 Overland Avenue
(corner Culver Boulevard - parking entrance on Culver),
Culver City

ADMISSION: General public welcome $15; free for IWOSC

RESERVATIONS REQUIRED -- For reservations and information,
contact info@iwosc.org or call (877) 79-WRITE. Reservations
will be honored up to ten minutes before the meeting begins.


Hello Kitty bio heart of my SECRET KITTY (60 pgs., Ahadada Press, 2005) bio"

at the UCLA Hammer in Stephen Yenser's series:


Susan Wheeler
7 pm
free; parking $3

next thursday:

Juliana Spahr
7 pm
free; parking $3

dec. 8
Heather McHugh


6522 Hollywood Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90028
t: 323.957.1777

WWW.ARTLEAK.ORG (click on "Voiceovers")


The Elizabeths are proud to present the pemiere performance of
"Elizabeth Speaks". In a provocative and revolutionary act of oration,
translation and interpretation, the Elizabeths will present political
speeches both past and present. In an engaging, audience participatory
forum, the Elizabeths' new performance will underscore the
correlations between historical political rhetoric and the governmental
agendas that are often camouflaged with doublespeak. Amplifying the
need for continued free speech, public debate, and individual
contributions, the Elizabeths will also give voice to any audience
member who wishes to participate in this public address. Let the
Elizabeths be your megaphone!

The Elizabeths consist of: Kristin Elizabeth Calabrese, Elizabeth
Tremante, and Micol Elisabeth Hebron.


TRACK 16, Bergamot Station
TICKETS $12.00
RESERVATIONS RECOMMENDED: Please call 310-264-4678 http://www.track16.com/home.html

“Phenom-EEE-nological Science Fair: Take Creation Into Your Own Hands” by The Elizabeths: Elizabeth Tremante, Micol Elisabeth Hebron and
Kristin Elizabeth Calabrese

You won't believe your eyes as you delve into the origins of creation
in this seminal achievement of performance art. In this inspiring and
intelligent new performance, The Elizabeths will transcend religious
and scientific boundaries on a Phenom-EEE-nological crusade. Like
throwing holy wine on a bunsen burner, The Elizabeths will fan the
flames of inspiration as audience members transform devotional objects
into objet d'art.  The Elizabeths will not stop with a mere bibelot,
however; they will design true miracles of creation.  Please join The
Elizabeths' in this special exploration of the scientific method as the
road to ecstasy.  All works made in good faith will be judged, prizes
will be awarded.
is the geneva convention basically the international toture-focussed version of gun control? seems like it, given the reactions of the current administration, i.e., they've got guns so I want one... pried from my cold, dead fingers (or those of my insane neighbor); they've got toture so we've got...

for an American, is there a moral equivalent of flushing a holy book? while the current administration, or the Reagan administration, would have liked the bible and the flag to be such symbols, and they are no doubt important, especially to members of the armed forces during their service, etc., one would like to think that in the larger liberal humanist society that destruction of a symbol would have no similar impact to physical torture -- but are the detainees, illegally mucked with this way anyway, illegally detained anyway -- really cracking because of these gestures, or from a consistent program of reeducation and isolation?

in the America that has just as bad a record on human rights as many third world countries? huh?

wait -- looking up the geneva convention, it says 1949? how could this have been used in hogan's heroes?

WHY ON EARTH hasn't the UN adopted the geneva convention; why this instead:


1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.
our vice president seems to ask, when is torture torture and when is it in quotes, "torture"? how does humiliation and degradation relate to torture and "torture"? is participation in military action consent?

will the undermining of the geneva convention totally wreck our rereadings of Hogan's Heroes and, beyond that, M*A*S*H (my vote for the movie & tv series most closely related to at least the typography of the logo of L=A=N..., which I first heard of because the 1984 Poets Market was filled with "markets" aka journals which said, "No L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry")


Frank O'Hara, for example, condemned the Black Mountain addiction to 'the serious utterance, which isn't particularly desirable most of the time', seeing in Charles Olson's Maximus Poems a congested neo-Poundian gravitas that could only sit in the reader's way.[7]


however O'Hara surges to the forefront of the current generation's consideration of the NY School, I'm thinking Davis & Mlinko, for example, also Lee Ann Brown's first book (I don't have her second -- she forgot to send it to me, ah well, she has a kid & is busy), failing to include a measure of if not gravitas than some measure of explicit seriousness, perhaps most easily thru literary theory, but there are other ways, is a good way to assure poems not getting read at all; check out even the reception of LOCKET, which is, frankly, way less NY School than much of my work -- it would seem it is nearly meaningless, while the meaning is so very obvious compared to the poems in my first book, while even those poems, the less serious ones are less read or less mentioned, ex. one might think the fashion designer poems don't exist; and even thenew book, it is the heavier poems that are put into print -- it is not that those lighter on the surface lack juice -- I guess they don't scream "read me' from the pile, since their very purpose is somewhat deflected from being in a big thick book on a shelf somewhere
Dogging the governor, as it has for months, was the California Nurses Assn., which organized a luau at the Trader Vic's in the same hotel. As Schwarzenegger's defeats mounted, giddy nurses formed a conga line and danced around the room, singing, "We're the mighty, mighty nurses."


name changing at marriage a sexist custom:

I still remain more interested in what name changing signals in women's writing. What I'm recognizing from my reading here is that either women must deliberate, discuss naming with their partners and families, and reach a sometimes difficult decision, or women change their names because they want to go with the flow, or have not thought about writing / publishing and feminism.

I'm also noticing that, no matter what decision is made, it is one that remains a lifelong consideration. "Mother's Maiden Name" is a security code trigger parallel to "pet's name" and the last four digits of your social.

This has got to have an impact on writing. Or perhaps I'm taking Mary Daly (not a close relative) too seriously? Hardly. What a joy that she refused to talk to male students in her audience when she visited my college. Because of course they were the ones who attempted to dominate the Q&A, if only in a weird attempt to impress us with their "feminism."

I will offer that a conversation with a neighbor who is unmarried, has a double-barreled name (though she's given serious thought to eliminating her father's name, and doesn't use it when introducing herself) but has been with her (male) partner for more than six years, revealed how uncomfortable people are with her situation. It is slightly less shocking, I guess, to be separately professionally established -- the assumption is that I am Mrs. Burch at home (I am not), and only Ms. Daly at work.

We are also wondering about the way naming female children after the mother and male children after the father creates even more of a gender divide in the family. To my mind, it seems to enforce the stoopid idea that you've got the have a boy to "carry on the family line" and a girl "to keep to your heart."


a controversial question is is poetry disordered in some sense by its very nature (this could range from deviations -- interesting or not -- from meter to "mystery" in poetry to questions of interpretationa nd readability - Stephen I assume means the latter but it could mean the ol' "heightened language" thang)

the idea and memory that happenstances, common occasions could generate a pattern that c/should be resisted or at least studied -- generation of fractals, etc. etc. other figures of interest to engineers and why -- yes the appeal of a visual and practical pattern -- what is the importance of the natural shape until an intransigent poet seeks it? that there are shapes that when reduced are themselves? ramifications?

there was a time when I was frustrated, after college, when I thought that all grad school was going to be was phenomenology and politics of translation

in a way, this could be a way through -- a fake book -- for American poetry -- something different from criticism / theory and whatnots

this is part of the minimalist art raises essentialist questions idea set

I don't want to be lame, but can you mean game theory rather than chaos? pseudo knowledge on senses being strong in any case
what is randomness? a question that I have been thinking of the last few days as I'm following an ms. to its logical conclusion, and part of doing that is "the opposite" of bernadette meyer's exercises

but the question I respond to is about random images and words; while Cage and MacLow, as well as myriad others, say something about choice, randomness, and *use of the source*
Stephen Morse made some comments here re: flarf, etc. I wanted to respond to, if I can.

On the surface all the gimmicks seem like, well, gimmicks, and suggests to me that the poet is avoiding any real involvement or effort with 'e (his or her) work. Seems a little lazy (which is of course an imposition of puritanical values on play and as such a rather useless statement). Perhaps, it might better be characterized as hopeful, or even wishful thinking. >

I haven't read a lot of flarf, nor do I consider myself a "flarfeur" -- I am wondering where my Hello Kitty poem falls on the spectrum, for example. But, as you know, some of these comments are fighting words I am likely to rise to a little bit.

The genesis story of flarf is that it was written in protest of poetry.com (that a deliberately bad poem was written using google and entered int heir anthology / publication gambit).

As you may see elsewhere on this blog, I share a business manager (through my fabulously hardworking writer husband) with Ray Manzarek, and thus Michael mcClure, perhaps the most infamous of those respected non-academic poets & performers who have received giant checks from poetry.com (among others).

I participate in the WOMPO list, which, before the genesis of flarf, had a discussion of poetry.com and the poetry workshop classroom -- well, because of this discussion, a bunch of WOMPOs began teaching writing a class bad poem or individual ones, and then entering them, in order to PROVE to students, who don't want to believe the terrible truth about poetry.com their utter capitalistic callowness.

I am also a poet in Los Angeles with a particular fondness for the efforts of Rick Lupert and Brendan Constantine. Rick Lupert is the first individual I know who wrote a deliberately bad poem and sent it to poetry.com -- not as a teaching point, just because. And then he read this poem and sometimes the responses -- contextualizing -- at numerous featured readings and open mikes here in LA, teaching the listeners the evils of poetry.com -- Rick is such an asset to that community here. This was years before this hullaballoo.

Even before that, I sent what was then a poem I considered one of my best -- it is in my current book LOCKET -- to the anthologies. Well, they just slaughtered it in proof, but it was already (the early 90's) a time when blues, etc. -- the old editorial process -- was disintegrating from the digial onslaught (partially economically based) of unbridled content / short deadlines.

I also want to mention before I go further that I always taught poetry.com and vanity publishing the hard way, with lots of contention, and that while former students have gone on to publish poems and books legitimately, and while many students -- including a wonderful poet from Detroit -- had spent literally thousands of dollars on poetry.com-related travel and other expenses for "awards banquets" -- other students went on to happily self-publish lots of chapbooks (as do the illustrious Mr. Lupert and Constantine).

And also that Kasey Mohammed has a serious academic poetical project involving the idea of badness and evaluation of poetry.

So flarf is not the first or perhaps the best test of badness and commercialism (and is not only one). I also remember a time that Nada and Gary and some others -- a brilliant choreographer in Portland whose name escapes me this second -- had been writing spam poems, before flarf, and I have always wondered if poet, publisher, musician Andrew Maxwell, one of SEVERAL LA google poets, in this locution being poets employed by google, have had, by virtue of their existance, influence on flarf practitioners, and what sort.

much of my work is of course about imposing personal meaning, and one of my problems with the HK poem is that there was a very specific meaning (it differed slightly from search engine to search engine and translation to translation) which was impervious to my attempts at control -- so I ended up trying to actualize and digest that (have I been in LA too long or what -- actualize); this is why the HK poem isn't flarf -- it takes place *after* the phantasm (or reproduction of it) has emerged

I would like to rise to the defense of my friends, and friends in poetry, but I feel that I'm not the best critic of flarf -- in my opinion, Kasey has made flarf into poetry, for example; his poems are not "mere" collage or found poems (as mine are not); if you've heard Nada read (she read with me at Belladonna in NY, along with Carolyn Bergvall) you know she is involved and present in her work -- perhaps not in the I = Nada, I really am writing about the cornfields around Iowa City 80's way, but, nevertheless....

for me, until I wrote the HK poem, my technology experience had led me to believe that flarf might be more about query writing than anyhting else; while in talks with Kasey, the search algorythms and indexes (of searched pages -- for example, google indexes the .info and some of the other newer extensions rather poorly) were things he's researched carefully and thoroughly -- the poetry ended up not being about the question -- this is one reason that my HK poem was not more centered on Japanese flavors of buddhism and religious questioning -- because they query ended up not being important to the construction, including the idea of questioning in the poem wouldn't crank it