more esoteric gifts given this holiday

comcast has kareoke -- gift from Ron to Adam and Elizabeth
Google Earth -- gift by Tom Kneafsey to Tom Daly to Ron
santa head bread -- Ron to Kasia
Mussolini -- Ron to Kasia

Mussolini is a classic in the "falling asleep" book genre, of which previous books are Padre Pio, a book about Padre Pio by Catholic Digest, Indiana History, excerpts from the indiana historical society newsletter, and ... now Mussolini (a biography).

characteristics include:

small type
thick but not too thick
polysyllabic / unfamiliar names
nonsensical or "who cares" statements made as though they are portentious, such as "he was born after lunch" and "Ominously, he did not speak until he was nearly three years old."
repetition of these "facts"
endnotes rather than footnotes of such "facts"
parlimentary procedure
obscure historical figures



"Ron Silliman is as odd looking as Catherine Daly."


" I like this photo of Ron Silliman, albeit a younger version of the poet, because it reflects his inner badass-ed-ness. "
The last Poetry reading of the year at the SMELL

Simon Pettit will be reading at the smell at 6:30 on Sunday Dec. 18, with
short readings by Jane Sprague, Jen Hofer, Andrew Maxwell, Stan Apps and Ara
Shirinyan, Joseph Mosconi, Matt Timmons, and others.

The smell is at 247 South Main Street, between 2nd & 3rd Street in Downtown
L.A. (enter through the alley). It's more or less behind Jalisco's.

Simon Pettet's many books include his Selected Poems (Talisman) and his new
More Winnowed Fragments. He edited The Selected Art Writings of James
Schuyler and collaborated with Duncan Hannah on Abundant Treasures and with
Rudy Burckhardt on Conversations About Everything and Talking Pictures.
British by birth, he lives in New York City.

Jane Sprague is a poet and the publisher of Palm Press. Her books include
The Port of Los Angeles and Fuck Your Pastoral.

Jen Hofer is a poet and translator. Her books include slide rule and Sin
puertas visibles: An Anthology of Comtemporary Poetry by Mexican Women.

Andrew Maxwell is a poet and musician and editor of the literary magazine
The Germ.

Stan Apps is the author of a chapbook, soft hands, by Ugly Duckling Presse.

Ara Shirinyan is the publisher of Make Now Books, which has recently
re-released the Oulipo Compendium and released new books by Kenneth
Goldsmith and Ian Monk. His book, Waste the Land, is forthcoming from
Factory School Press.

Joseph Mosconi keeps a blog at http://harlequinknights.blogspot.com . He is
a lexicographer and poet.

Matt Timmons writes poems with the assistance of technological
interventions. He has co-organized a new online interview series called
LA-Lit, with the goal of documenting the L.A. literary scene.

This event costs $5 at the door. Feel free to forward this e-mail to other
interested persons.


TONIGHT, December 9th, 7:00 pm
Tupelo Press Reading and Reception
Jeffrey Levine, Kate Gale, Ilya Kaminsky, Catherine Daly, David Hernandez
Honoring Los Angeles poets
and the Publication of
Rumor of Cortez by Jeffrey Levine

The Ruskin Art Club
800 S. Plymouth Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90005
Admission: General $10 / Students and Seniors $5

Saturday, December 10, 2005, 7:30 pm
Reading and Discussion
with Kwame Dawes and Percival Everett
hosted by Sly Cheney Coker (Feuchtwanger Fellow)

The Villa Aurora
520 Paseo Miramar
Pacific Palisades, CA 90272
Suggested donation: $10

Please RSVP at (310) 573-3603!

Shuttle service starts at 7:00 pm.
Please park your car on Los Liones Drive, off Sunset Blvd., two blocks east of Pacific Coast Highway

Sunday, December 11th, 2:00 pm
Poetry at the Ruskin
featuring Percival Everett and Kwame Dawes

The Ruskin Art Club
800 S. Plymouth Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90005
Admission: General $10 / Students and Seniors $5

For more information contact us at 818-831-0649.


I remembered what I was up to yesterday. I am doing most of my christmas shopping online because my husband has no time to shop this year. And I received a timely e-mail with some links to New orleans businesses with ecommerce, and have decided to support them as much as possible.


gift baskets




lots of links






lingerie / clothes


blogger hard crashed both machines yesterday -- booooo -- so I forgot was i was going to post

Last night I thought, wouldn't the old, combative POETICS list have made a good poetics wiki, and what if we made a POETICS wiki? But one with strong moderation or editing would be required.

Rather than a list, it would be more of a topical multi-threaded discussion, and when the discussion was getting very heated on "lutheran surrealism" or whatever, uninterested parties could go over to the "syntax" area. But, humorously, when discussion was getting very heated on a topic, that particular page would be continually edited and re-edited until it didn't exist.

So, here is my explanation:

A listserv is a software application where e-mails sent to a single address are 1) sent to e-mail addresses on a list, 2) archived on a server, 3) sorted and searchable in that archive (generally by date, author, and topic). In topic threads, users may elect to quote previous posts for context.

A discussion database is one where an e-mail is sent in or a web page is made in the database, and then people can e-mail in or compose in place web pages which are "replies" or "children" of the original posting or page "parent". These are generally sortable more flexibly, and topics can branch, and be expanded and collapsed, so you can see parts of a "discussion thread" or not. Users may elect to link to related pages; certain users may be allowed to edit the work of others. Users can elect to be notified when something is contributed on one topic and not another. A blog with lots of comment activity is generally like an inflexible discussion database with a "strong administrator".

A blog is originally organized like a journal, according to date, although you can get clever on it and have it look like a book with a table of contents, but I'll spare you -- you can write software around all this software that will make it act like other software just like you can have a string quartet and then hire a horn section but never really get an orchestra out of it. A multiblog where all the people participating have editing privileges is sort of like a blog being used as a wiki, with shortcomings, as Joel mentioned, like the archiving / version control problem.

A wiki is a database where a web page is made in the database, and anyone registered can make a page or edit another page. Links to related pages, or pages that will eventually exist and be related ("stumps") are especially valuable in a wiki. The problem of the imaginary ye olde POETICS liste is one that remains: some will edit the work of others rather than adding to the general wiki or merely offering a competing view or opinion.

One problem of the old poetics list a wiki solves, though, is bandwidth, capacity, and attention -- in that one may visit other areas when a single topic is getting bogged down in minutiae. And, perhaps, in the utopian vision of a wiki, that certain topics will be reduced to ashes is a fine thing, because the archive is always there.


on Saturday, December 17th at 7:30pm

will read from their work

::please bring drinks or dessert to::

143 Ravenna Drive
Long Beach, CA 90803
h 562-434-0789

from downtown LA: take the 110S to San Pedro. Follow the exit signs for Long Beach it is for Rte. 47 - go right. Proceed over two bridges through the ports of LA & LB. Follow this road to Ocean Blvd (freeway ends & becomes Ocean). The road will fork- go LEFT onto 2nd St. & proceed to Ravenna Drive, go right. Our house is the 2nd on the right.

from West LA: take the 405S to the 7th St/22 exit. Then take Studebaker Rd. exit. Take this to end & go RIGHT on 2nd Street. Proceed to Ravenna & go LEFT. Our house is the second on the right.


long list of bad sex awards

winner this year, the shower head penis, last year, tom wolfe




_los punkinhedz_
money mark nishita, john wicks and watt in some improv jams

friday, december 2 at 8 pm
at the sacred grounds coffee house
468 w. sixth st.
san pedro, ca
(310) 514-0800
all ages, free admission

_mike watt + the secondmen_
featuring original secondmen pete mazich and jerry trebotic

saturday, december 3 at 9 pm
opening for the legendary germs (3/4 of them)
whoa, whoa, whoa!
at the key club
9039 sunset bl.
west hollywood, ca
(310) 274-5800

mike watt *live on kuci*

sun, dec. 4
4-6pm (california time)

on smoke signals from the burnpile
guest host steve sherlock presents bassist
mike watt. mike is the living embodiment of
the punk rock spirit. as a founding member of
the highly influential minutemen, he created
one of the most important bodies of work in
the american underground canon, delivering
adventurous, fiercely polemical music
informed by such disparate traditions as
funk, folk, and free jazz. a discussion about
his latest film, "we jam econo," and his
current residency with iggy & the stooges
will also be conducted during the broadcast..

» http://theminutemen.com
» http://hootpage.com

how can you listen?

we broadcast at 88.9fm to the irvine, ca and
uci area. kuci can be heard in mission viejo,
santa ana, costa mesa, newport beach, orange,
tustin and on a cloudy day: fullerton and
maybe even diamond bar.

since we do have a comparatively limited
signal we have put together a high capacity
webcast at 128k, cd-quality for those with
fast connections and a 24k, low-quality
stream for dialup connections which enables
us to be heard anywhere in the world.

[ spiel will stream at http://kuci.org ]


Poetry Reading - Saturday, December 3, 2005, 6-8pm

Molly Bendall will be reading poems from her new book, "Illuminations" designed by Gloria Kondrup with prints by John O'Brien as part of the exhibition "Pagine Veneziane" on Saturday, December 3, 2005, 6-8pm in the Gallery.

John O'Brien
Pagine Veneziane
November 10 - December 18

Kristi Engle Gallery
Spring Arts Tower
453 South Spring Street, Ste. 741
Los Angeles, CA 90013

There is still one remaining Downtown Art Walk scheduled this year:
Thursday, December 8, 2005
12pm - 9 pm * Free Admission

Participants in the Downtown Art Walk include the Museum of Contemporary Art on Grand Avenue (MOCA), Los Angeles Public Library, L. A. Artcore Center, 2nd Street Cigars and Gallery, de Soto, M. J. Higgins, Pharmaka, Los Angeles Center for Digital Art, El Nopal Press, Bert Green Fine Art, Niche.LA/Lounge 441, Kristi Engle Gallery, Art Murmur Gallery, 626 Gallery, Modern Art Downtown, Gallery 727, The Hive Gallery, Infusion Gallery, Museum of Neon Art (MONA), and the Downtown Art Gallery.
there is hard research (I met one researcher when I taught at Antioch) that indicates that the reasons that young women -- even those in highly selective schools with specialties in math and science such as like Carnegie Mellon, MIT, and CalTech -- leave the majors in droves IF THEY CAN. so devastating is the prejudice, the hazing, the silence that is a lack of support, that almost all women who can -- because they come from a middle class background, because they have aptitudes in language arts or management as well as in mathematics and science, etc. -- leave, while only women who can't -- on student visa from a non-English speaking country, with a scholarship only for study in math or sciences -- stick with the sciences. I would suggest, based on my own experience, that the situation is nearly identical for women in the technical professions. Banking and law, back in the 80s, were two bright spots.

I would also add that technical education is continuing -- it ages too quickly; that the best preparation for the professions remains liberal arts, not "pre" whatever. I would also suggest that the worst career counselors are academics or those counselors working in academia.

There is a list for making the transition from academia through the Woodrow Wilson Foundation -- http://www.woodrow.org/ -- as well as nice internships and fellowships.

As for the new listmember from OSU -- welcome! OSU is notorious for not supporting its grads. I know; my husband is one.


is the list that they have; sometimes it helps to think of yourself as making a mid-career change; it is not as good for the arts as for the humanities, I think, because artists tend to continue to make their art, while only a small fraction of humanities grads continue their research and publication when they leave the field which rewards that -- again, law and banking are somewhat more tolerant about what one does on one's own time, and how that can feed good performance 8-6.
In this discussion, naming / nominalism, identity, social class, and status have been variously collapsed and combined in a way that I have not seen easily usefully applied to poetry -- in other words, a discussion of names, identity, whatnot among people who work with words, names, identity, class, and status in writing every day.

what is most astounding to me in thus discussion is the collapse into the idea "status" of class, economics, post-Marxism, humanities, the arts, and the sciences in a way bound to be incendiary on a list where the majority is self-identified feminist writers with a background in the arts and humanities, employed in writing, arts, education or arts administration, or education

as with naming, education and ideas of it are societal, but I wonder at how the difference between the experience of mostly female artists and educators -- feminised fields -- "on the ground" in contemporary American society and that of cultural studies-mediated understandings of the experience of women in 18th century Britain are continually elided in this discussion

and how we all feel the anomalous anecdote that shews New Historicism to be a critical blind alley is only combated by the emotional personal anecdote
If you find yourself near Chinatown this Sunday afternoon, stop by Mountain Bar to celebrate the launch of the latest issue of Log. Collaborator Florencia Pita and I contributed to this edition. Festivities are sponsored by the Los Angeles Forum for Architecture.

forum holiday party + launch of log 6
Sunday, December 4, 5pm on
Mountain Bar, 475 Gin Ling Way, L.A.

Dim sum will be served.

Editor Cynthia Davidson will speak briefly about the birth of Log in the aftermath of Any. Log 6 contributors who will be in attendance include Forum President Kazys Varnelis, Teddy Cruz, Tom Gilmore, Craig Hodgetts, Wes Jones, Bruna Mori, Florencia Pita, and newly appointed director of the Canadian Centre for Architecture Mirko Zardini.



On the one hand, I think it is particularly important to not push women into more vocational fields, because we have historically been pushed in that direction. I know that in teaching, I had a hard time coming to terms with the push of my more talented undergrads in a votech direction from the counseling office -- while I realized that they were being pragmatic, technical fields change too rapidly for higher education -- which I view as long term -- they require continuing education, IMO. My best writers or most driven junior coworkers were pushed to become medical assistants and low-level network technicians rather than reporters or managers.

Of course, there are always the professions, and I think that's fine, but there's absolutely no need to forgo a liberal arts education before beginning law school, business school, or medical school.

I remember a considerable push from the extended family (not my immediate family) towards my learning how to repair computers!, which I wisely resisted.

I also wonder about the wisdom of discouraging women from pursuing female-dominated professions. The Mrs. degree at my undergrad institution was art history, and led to a number of young women getting nice curator, interior design, and etc. jobs of the kind I would have liked (and still would like); I remember renaissance, medieval, and etc. studies being somewhat akin to the art history degree in purportedly leading a young woman with an amount of family money or a comfortable marital situation a pleasant and interesting career. I recognize that my writing is now seen in the same light.

I just think the idea that very many young women are seeking to solve their problems with marriage and child-bearing, and so have to be pushed toward something like telecoms to be feminists and "full human beings" is disingenuous and distasteful.

When will Americans stop making blanket generalizations or recommendations about the treatment of all people based on preventing stupid people from being stupid?



more completely out of context posts not sent to WOMPO -- maybe I should post my whole set --- this posted due to the locution "social language"

Well, I'll disagree with that. Feminism and sexism are different. I can definitely say that patriarchal naming is a sexist practice ingrained in American society, and support my point well, without referring to any of the anecdotes shared on this list (individual contexts). I can also say that name changing at marriage is not a feminist practice, because name changing is a sexist survival in our social language.

To say these things is neither meaningless, nor does it particularly condemn feminists who do not take great umbrage at sexist language and its social applications.

this from my REFORMATION research

Well, marriage wasn’t a sacrament – it wasn’t sacred & it wasn’t a church-mediated ritual – until just before the reformation (about the time of the institution of mandatory celibacy for catholic priests (note: not monastics)).

There is nothing sacred about marriage in the christian religious sense, or, rather, there is nothing sacred about marriage in the religious sense which is not an example of cultural imperialism.

Interestingly, during the cold war, the nuns who were my teachers emphasized the small size of the state weddings (you just sign a book! you take the train! there aren’t a bajillion attendants!) in the soviet union and the cultural survivors of christian weddings in them, which I faultily recall as “top of cake” dresses and VEILS of all things.

this about adjuncting and marriage, which ended up in this discussion being not about career and marriage and feminism but nepotism:

I've been trying to follow this, but I'm not quite sure I understand -- are these just couples who have dual appointments and different surnames? Or are these couples who have dual appointments and different surnames _and_ deliberately attempt to disguise their marital status?

That a new adjunct would not be aware of everyone's marital status is not surprising; that an adjunct would be badmouthing anyone would be.

That a married woman who chose to keep her name would also choose to keep her career path, even one at the same company, as separate as possible from her husband's is not surprising, and seems really healthy.

But this bitterness at dual appointment couples where the women keeps her maiden name is somewhat difficult for me to identify except as adjunct bitterness, which is real, especially in the case where the adjunct of the couple is making a career sacrifice. For example, I myself am not in a location where *any* of the many careers and opportunities I have had elsewhere are available.

I ever pursue an academic position again, I will probably need to use my husband's teaching and work experience -- the possibility of getting him to teach part time if I am hired -- as an inducement. And he has no desire to teach when he is retired.

Yet I did not take his surname because of the status being Catherine Daly confers upon me? Sure, and for other reasons as well. Catherine Burch has no identity, and I see no need to waste my time trying to invest the name with some.


Come to ArtistSalonRAW
Sunday, December 4, 2005
7 p.m. to 10 p.m.
The House 13925 Leadwell St. Van Nuys, CA 91405
~where it all began~

(21 and over please)

AUDIENCES: See Amazing Artists in a Great Setting

Opens: 7-8 p.m., 9-10 p.m.
Features: 8-9 p.m.

About the features:

Ara Shirinyan writes poetry and other things. Visit the blog
changeonthat.blogspot.com for some work. Ara is editor of Make Now Press
(www.makenow.org ). Ara co-curates the reading series at the Smell 247 S.
Main St. Los Angeles, CA 90012, last Sunday of every month, withfellow poet
and friend Stan Apps.

Joseph Thomas is a poet and scholar who teaches contemporary poetry and
poetry writing at California State University, Northridge. He writes
procedural poetry in the tradition of John Cage and Jackson MacLow, looking
at words as physical objects to be manipulated, rearranged, and played with.
His chapbook, Strong Measures, is slated to be published within the next

* financial and/or edible/drinkable donations are welcome.
if a journal accepts a poem (lets you know that) and doesn't send you a contributor's copy, how do you note that on an acknoweldgements page where you are asked for full MLA biblio instead of "these poems have appeared in x, y, z journals, vol. no., web address, etc.)? "apparently they published this?" Right now, I've got a lot of "NA" where vol. no. or dsate of publication would go, and a lot of NA with poems now missing URLs (or are you expected to then link up to the internet archive?)
the Make Now Press website (www.makenow.org) is now able to process your orders online.

Now you can purchase the new edition of the OULIPO COMPENDIUM and our two other new titles, Séance, edited by Wetheim and Viegener and Writings for the Oulipo by Ian Monk.

You can also order Kenneth Goldsmith's The Weather, Ian Monk's other Make Now title, Family Archaeology, and Raymond Federman's The Precipice and Other Catastrophes.

Orders of three or more books will include an original copy of Aram Saroyan's The Rest, originally published in 1971 by Telegraph Books.


> Greetings Process friends,
> In L.A. this weekend? Timothy Archibald, author of
> Sex Machines: Photographs
> and Interviews
> will be in Los Feliz this Sunday, November 27, 8-10
> pm, to present a special
> slide show and reading at the Smart Gals Original
> Old Time Speakeasy in Los
> Feliz (Mt. Hollywood underground, 4607 Prospect
> Ave.)
> Timothy has just returned from a wildly successful
> slideshow tour
> hp
> on the east coast and this will be the last Process
> (and Speakeasy) event of
> the year, so come for the "special lemonade" and an
> inspiring talk on one of
> middle America's most remarkable new subcultures.
> Afterwards, Evangenitals
> L.A.'s will perform.
> Books will be available for purchase, so you can do
> all your holiday
> shopping in one spot and get signed, personally
> inscribed copies of Sex
> Machines for each of your friends and relatives!
> "Without question...the perfect Christmas gift for
> the jaded know-it-all who
> thinks American ingenuity is on the decline."
> -Nightcharm.com
> Hope to see you there!
> Speakeasy
> Sunday November 27th , 8:00 - 10:00pm
> Mt Hollywood Underground
> 4607 Prospect Ave., Los Feliz
> Admission: $7.00 general, $5.00 for members
> Password is "Little Almighty"
This month's smell reading will feature Justin Veach, Michael Smoler, and
Harold Abramovitz, and will begin at approximately 6:30 on Sunday the 27th.

Justin Veach is a provocateur, poet, and Butoh dancer. He enjoys thinking
about and touching his own body. He is a member of the Corpus Delicti Butoh

Michael Smoler is a fearsome and ambiguous presence. He is the author of
chapbooks. He claims his belongings will soon be arriving from the "east

Harold Abramovitz enjoys literature, so much so that he creates his own. His
works are neither here nor there. A potential non-space obeys Harold's
whispered commands.

Come one, come all! smell the poetry!

Feel free to forward this message to other art-lovers and wonderful people.
The next reading will be on Sunday December 18, with Simon Pettet, Stan
Shirinyan and Ara Apps (reading collaborations), Matt Timmons, Jane Sprague,
Jen Hofer, Andrew Maxwell, Joseph Mosconi and many many more, probably.

The readings are also announced at http://smelllastsunday.blogspot.com/
(where there are directions)


Secret Kitty will be launched by Ahadada Press next week, and I'll read from it at the Ahadada reading Dec. 17 at Beyond Baroque (before the Cid Corman celebration, where everyone is invited to read).

Paper Craft has been accepted!!! for publication, and I have some work to do on formats; right now, trying to decide between square or ability for people overseas to order it. Square is better for the origami overtone it would lend.

Still working on To Instruct and Delite to send to Blue Lion.

Still reworking the center of OOD, so long as no ones agreed to publish it...

and the sprinkler system is galvanized, not PVC, so it needs replacing. I know, sprinkler system -- when we came to florida from illinois, we thought, wow, they're treating all these ordinary lawns like mansion lawns with these sprinklers -- nope, in the sun belt, in the south west, if you have a lawn at all (we are required not to completely xeriscape -- to keep some "lawn" eeauw -- by the hpoz), you need a sprinkler system. made of pvc. preferably pulling from a well (like my parents) even though that stains your house rust colored (from the galvanized from the well)

seems like doom for the big ficus...


Maybe part of the feeling had to do with the conversations I had read recently on Limetree [click here] about Dead Kitten poetics. This discussion has to do with a Mary Oliver poem that KSM, Drew Gardner [click here]and others, possibly including Mary Oliver herself (never can tell with these comment signatures)have been intensely discussing. The issue is an all too familiar one in blogland: can anyone say with certainty that this or that poem is “bad.” Kasey concludes that you can say a poem is adequate or inadequate. I’ve succumbed to this discussion too many times already (usually with Jonathan Mayhew- who, as has been once celebrated in song, is back in town again -I’m sure to see him tomorrow at the Bowery Poetry Club where Alan Davies and Drew Gardner are reading).

My point, during the last go round with Jonathan (or was it the one before?) that a poem is sort of like a prayer, and what would be a bad prayer?

this from Nick Piombino's blog

have had some scant talks with Kasey re: bad -- I tend to use pragmatics rather than adequacy -- before checking limetree, also I do have some recent dead kitten exp. and some recent Mary Oliver slagging reading -- i.e. if it is not "Lines Written upon the Death of a Favorite Cat"... then what it is in student work is reading the death-rich canon while the only death you are likely to experience or to have experienced -- as a poem occasion -- while an undergrad is the death of a grandparent (usually gradmother in my generation, now probably grandfather); no surprse that then this should generate a poem, like the street person and anorexia poem --

I for one don't think subject matter should be banned; I think tho it is the difficulty students have coming to terms with content when all they've got as formal examples are Mary Oliver and most of what they've got for examples of content are suicides and Victorians.

The Mary Oliver essay I'd read and now dimly recall was about how her extreme reticence (sp?) has given her loads of admirers and no serious critics.

but KSM isn't talking about content so much as craft, ecomony, and a sort of least common demoninator called adequacy which must be founded in form

I tend to think of teaching poetry writing more like teaching swimming or riding a bike (things I can do) or juggling (things I can't do) -- you're teaching the two things at once, and for students who are just aquiring adequate craft and also trying to find an approach to subject matter, I think the training wheels to someone holding the bike to you thinking someone is holding the bike while you're actually balancing is probably best -- though I don't locate the training wheels or holding the bike parts in the realm of "poetry exercises"

I also know well that this approach is seen as idiodic for students merely interested in writing something adequate for a grade, merely seeking approval for "creativity," or a pursuit of mastery of meter and rhyme without responsibillity to content.

For example, in the Oliver dead kitten poem, as opposed to Grey's, Oliver relies on a sort of ad hoc support or allusion to natural selection with some of the drama of the monstrous / bestial births to the early American female heretics thrown in -- one concept not likely to be under contention by her readers, one entirely accepted at face value -- while Grey draws a more deliberate moral point.


The i.e. poetry series is held at
Clayton & Co. Fine Books
317 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21201
(410) 752-6800

4pm - 6pm on the first & third Saturday each month-
(with one exception- Friday Jan. 20th)

Jan. 7th-
Joseph Massey, Marianne Amoss, Reb Livingston

Jan. 20th * Friday-
Catherine Daly, Jessica Smith, Moira Egan
This reading will be held at
AREA 405 Gallery
405 East Oliver Street
Baltimore, MD 21202
(410) 528-2101

Feb. 4th-
Cathy Hong, Bonnie Jones, Ric Royer

Feb. 18th-
Lisa Jarnot, Ken Rumble

March 4th-
Norma Cole, John Yau

March 18th-
Tim Davis, Rupert Wondolowski

April 1st-
Keith Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop

April 15th-
Mel Nichols, Todd Sandvik

May 6th-
Ryan Walker, Kevin Thurston

May 20th-
Edwin Torres, Elena Alexander


thanks joseph


punchline to most: DIES


reminder of the LA Art Girls blog loc:

upcoming show curated by a friend, Kristin Calabrese:

Apocalypse Soon!! http://www.kristincalabrese.com/apocalypse/index.html

Hopefully I can complete some "cross words" for her show zine!
this is an odd little org that I met up with at the WeHo bookfair

"An Evening with Sandra Tsing Loh, in Conversation with
Digby Diehl"

Monday, November 21
Program begins at 7:30 p.m.
Reservations are mandatory

Departing from our usual formula, we are excited to host
Sandra Tsing Loh in conversation with Digby Diehl. Heard
regularly on KPCC, writer-performer-musician Loh is a
talented wordsmith who pens in-depth observances about
everyday occurrences transfigured into delicious rants. Loh
writes for many genres and has interesting experiences and
advice to share. No stranger to controversy, Loh was fired
from a radio commentator job over an un-bleeped obscenity,
which triggered her transformation into a free-speech and
First Amendment advocate.

Loh is currently appearing in her one-woman show, "Mother
on Fire," at the 24th St. Theatre. Previously, she was seen
in solo performance at the Geffen Playhouse in "Sugar Plum
Fairy." Her other shows include "Aliens in America," "Bad
Sex With Bud Kemp," and "I Worry."

Her books include "A Year in Van Nuys," "Aliens in
America," "Depth Takes a Holiday," and a novel, "If You
Lived Here, You'd Be Home By Now," which was named by the
Los Angeles Times as one of the 100 best fiction books of
1998. Her story, "My Father's Chinese Wives," received a
1997 Pushcart Prize and was featured in the 1999 Norton
Anthology of Short Fiction. She and her husband Mike
Miller also composed the music for Jessica Yu's documentary
short, "Breathing Lessons," which won an Oscar in 1998.

She has been a regular commentator on NPR's "Morning
Edition" and on Ira Glass's "This American Life." Her
weekly segment, "The Loh Life," is heard on KPCC, and her
monthly segment, "The Loh Down," is heard on American
Public Media's "Marketplace." Loh is also a contributing
editor for The Atlantic Monthly.

The evening will be hosted by acclaimed writer and critic
Digby Diehl. Diehl is one of the most trusted and
successful literary collaborators in America. He has
written, co-written, rewritten, researched, and edited more
than three dozen books. His book credits include:

* The forthcoming memoirs of Coretta Scott King;
* "Angel on My Shoulder," the autobiography of singer
Natalie Cole, and a Los Angeles Times #1 bestseller;
* "Million Dollar Mermaid," the New York Times bestseller
and critically acclaimed autobiography of actress Esther
* "Lost Honor," the sequel to "Blind Ambition," for Richard
Nixon's former White House counsel, John Dean;
* Pediatrician Fitzhugh Dodson's perennial bestseller, "How
to Parent;"
* "Soapsuds," written with soap star Finola Hughes;
* "Tales from the Crypt," the history of the popular comic
book, movie, and television series; and
* "A Spy for All Seasons," the autobiography of former CIA
officer Duane Clarridge.

The founding editor of the Los Angeles Times Book Review,
Diehl is a widely respected book reviewer and commentator.
He was the literary correspondent for ABC-TV's "Good
Morning America," movie critic and entertainment editor for
KCBS-TV in Los Angeles, and Hollywood correspondent for
the "CBS Morning News." He now offers regular book
commentary on KTLA in Los Angeles.

In addition, Diehl is an advisory board member and former
president of the P.E.N. American Center West, a founding
member of the National Book Critics Circle, and, not least,
was on IWOSC's first Advisory Board in 1983.

DATE: Monday, November 21

WHEN: 7:30 p.m. SHARP TO 9:00 p.m. (networking follows the

WHERE: Veterans Memorial Building, 4117 Overland Avenue
(corner Culver Boulevard - parking entrance on Culver),
Culver City

ADMISSION: General public welcome $15; free for IWOSC

RESERVATIONS REQUIRED -- For reservations and information,
contact info@iwosc.org or call (877) 79-WRITE. Reservations
will be honored up to ten minutes before the meeting begins.


Hello Kitty bio heart of my SECRET KITTY (60 pgs., Ahadada Press, 2005) bio"

at the UCLA Hammer in Stephen Yenser's series:


Susan Wheeler
7 pm
free; parking $3

next thursday:

Juliana Spahr
7 pm
free; parking $3

dec. 8
Heather McHugh


6522 Hollywood Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90028
t: 323.957.1777

WWW.ARTLEAK.ORG (click on "Voiceovers")


The Elizabeths are proud to present the pemiere performance of
"Elizabeth Speaks". In a provocative and revolutionary act of oration,
translation and interpretation, the Elizabeths will present political
speeches both past and present. In an engaging, audience participatory
forum, the Elizabeths' new performance will underscore the
correlations between historical political rhetoric and the governmental
agendas that are often camouflaged with doublespeak. Amplifying the
need for continued free speech, public debate, and individual
contributions, the Elizabeths will also give voice to any audience
member who wishes to participate in this public address. Let the
Elizabeths be your megaphone!

The Elizabeths consist of: Kristin Elizabeth Calabrese, Elizabeth
Tremante, and Micol Elisabeth Hebron.


TRACK 16, Bergamot Station
TICKETS $12.00
RESERVATIONS RECOMMENDED: Please call 310-264-4678 http://www.track16.com/home.html

“Phenom-EEE-nological Science Fair: Take Creation Into Your Own Hands” by The Elizabeths: Elizabeth Tremante, Micol Elisabeth Hebron and
Kristin Elizabeth Calabrese

You won't believe your eyes as you delve into the origins of creation
in this seminal achievement of performance art. In this inspiring and
intelligent new performance, The Elizabeths will transcend religious
and scientific boundaries on a Phenom-EEE-nological crusade. Like
throwing holy wine on a bunsen burner, The Elizabeths will fan the
flames of inspiration as audience members transform devotional objects
into objet d'art.  The Elizabeths will not stop with a mere bibelot,
however; they will design true miracles of creation.  Please join The
Elizabeths' in this special exploration of the scientific method as the
road to ecstasy.  All works made in good faith will be judged, prizes
will be awarded.
is the geneva convention basically the international toture-focussed version of gun control? seems like it, given the reactions of the current administration, i.e., they've got guns so I want one... pried from my cold, dead fingers (or those of my insane neighbor); they've got toture so we've got...

for an American, is there a moral equivalent of flushing a holy book? while the current administration, or the Reagan administration, would have liked the bible and the flag to be such symbols, and they are no doubt important, especially to members of the armed forces during their service, etc., one would like to think that in the larger liberal humanist society that destruction of a symbol would have no similar impact to physical torture -- but are the detainees, illegally mucked with this way anyway, illegally detained anyway -- really cracking because of these gestures, or from a consistent program of reeducation and isolation?

in the America that has just as bad a record on human rights as many third world countries? huh?

wait -- looking up the geneva convention, it says 1949? how could this have been used in hogan's heroes?

WHY ON EARTH hasn't the UN adopted the geneva convention; why this instead:


1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

2. The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8, 10, 15, 30, fifth paragraph, 58-67, 92, 126 and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 of the present Convention.
our vice president seems to ask, when is torture torture and when is it in quotes, "torture"? how does humiliation and degradation relate to torture and "torture"? is participation in military action consent?

will the undermining of the geneva convention totally wreck our rereadings of Hogan's Heroes and, beyond that, M*A*S*H (my vote for the movie & tv series most closely related to at least the typography of the logo of L=A=N..., which I first heard of because the 1984 Poets Market was filled with "markets" aka journals which said, "No L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry")


Frank O'Hara, for example, condemned the Black Mountain addiction to 'the serious utterance, which isn't particularly desirable most of the time', seeing in Charles Olson's Maximus Poems a congested neo-Poundian gravitas that could only sit in the reader's way.[7]


however O'Hara surges to the forefront of the current generation's consideration of the NY School, I'm thinking Davis & Mlinko, for example, also Lee Ann Brown's first book (I don't have her second -- she forgot to send it to me, ah well, she has a kid & is busy), failing to include a measure of if not gravitas than some measure of explicit seriousness, perhaps most easily thru literary theory, but there are other ways, is a good way to assure poems not getting read at all; check out even the reception of LOCKET, which is, frankly, way less NY School than much of my work -- it would seem it is nearly meaningless, while the meaning is so very obvious compared to the poems in my first book, while even those poems, the less serious ones are less read or less mentioned, ex. one might think the fashion designer poems don't exist; and even thenew book, it is the heavier poems that are put into print -- it is not that those lighter on the surface lack juice -- I guess they don't scream "read me' from the pile, since their very purpose is somewhat deflected from being in a big thick book on a shelf somewhere
Dogging the governor, as it has for months, was the California Nurses Assn., which organized a luau at the Trader Vic's in the same hotel. As Schwarzenegger's defeats mounted, giddy nurses formed a conga line and danced around the room, singing, "We're the mighty, mighty nurses."


name changing at marriage a sexist custom:

I still remain more interested in what name changing signals in women's writing. What I'm recognizing from my reading here is that either women must deliberate, discuss naming with their partners and families, and reach a sometimes difficult decision, or women change their names because they want to go with the flow, or have not thought about writing / publishing and feminism.

I'm also noticing that, no matter what decision is made, it is one that remains a lifelong consideration. "Mother's Maiden Name" is a security code trigger parallel to "pet's name" and the last four digits of your social.

This has got to have an impact on writing. Or perhaps I'm taking Mary Daly (not a close relative) too seriously? Hardly. What a joy that she refused to talk to male students in her audience when she visited my college. Because of course they were the ones who attempted to dominate the Q&A, if only in a weird attempt to impress us with their "feminism."

I will offer that a conversation with a neighbor who is unmarried, has a double-barreled name (though she's given serious thought to eliminating her father's name, and doesn't use it when introducing herself) but has been with her (male) partner for more than six years, revealed how uncomfortable people are with her situation. It is slightly less shocking, I guess, to be separately professionally established -- the assumption is that I am Mrs. Burch at home (I am not), and only Ms. Daly at work.

We are also wondering about the way naming female children after the mother and male children after the father creates even more of a gender divide in the family. To my mind, it seems to enforce the stoopid idea that you've got the have a boy to "carry on the family line" and a girl "to keep to your heart."


a controversial question is is poetry disordered in some sense by its very nature (this could range from deviations -- interesting or not -- from meter to "mystery" in poetry to questions of interpretationa nd readability - Stephen I assume means the latter but it could mean the ol' "heightened language" thang)

the idea and memory that happenstances, common occasions could generate a pattern that c/should be resisted or at least studied -- generation of fractals, etc. etc. other figures of interest to engineers and why -- yes the appeal of a visual and practical pattern -- what is the importance of the natural shape until an intransigent poet seeks it? that there are shapes that when reduced are themselves? ramifications?

there was a time when I was frustrated, after college, when I thought that all grad school was going to be was phenomenology and politics of translation

in a way, this could be a way through -- a fake book -- for American poetry -- something different from criticism / theory and whatnots

this is part of the minimalist art raises essentialist questions idea set

I don't want to be lame, but can you mean game theory rather than chaos? pseudo knowledge on senses being strong in any case
what is randomness? a question that I have been thinking of the last few days as I'm following an ms. to its logical conclusion, and part of doing that is "the opposite" of bernadette meyer's exercises

but the question I respond to is about random images and words; while Cage and MacLow, as well as myriad others, say something about choice, randomness, and *use of the source*
Stephen Morse made some comments here re: flarf, etc. I wanted to respond to, if I can.

On the surface all the gimmicks seem like, well, gimmicks, and suggests to me that the poet is avoiding any real involvement or effort with 'e (his or her) work. Seems a little lazy (which is of course an imposition of puritanical values on play and as such a rather useless statement). Perhaps, it might better be characterized as hopeful, or even wishful thinking. >

I haven't read a lot of flarf, nor do I consider myself a "flarfeur" -- I am wondering where my Hello Kitty poem falls on the spectrum, for example. But, as you know, some of these comments are fighting words I am likely to rise to a little bit.

The genesis story of flarf is that it was written in protest of poetry.com (that a deliberately bad poem was written using google and entered int heir anthology / publication gambit).

As you may see elsewhere on this blog, I share a business manager (through my fabulously hardworking writer husband) with Ray Manzarek, and thus Michael mcClure, perhaps the most infamous of those respected non-academic poets & performers who have received giant checks from poetry.com (among others).

I participate in the WOMPO list, which, before the genesis of flarf, had a discussion of poetry.com and the poetry workshop classroom -- well, because of this discussion, a bunch of WOMPOs began teaching writing a class bad poem or individual ones, and then entering them, in order to PROVE to students, who don't want to believe the terrible truth about poetry.com their utter capitalistic callowness.

I am also a poet in Los Angeles with a particular fondness for the efforts of Rick Lupert and Brendan Constantine. Rick Lupert is the first individual I know who wrote a deliberately bad poem and sent it to poetry.com -- not as a teaching point, just because. And then he read this poem and sometimes the responses -- contextualizing -- at numerous featured readings and open mikes here in LA, teaching the listeners the evils of poetry.com -- Rick is such an asset to that community here. This was years before this hullaballoo.

Even before that, I sent what was then a poem I considered one of my best -- it is in my current book LOCKET -- to the anthologies. Well, they just slaughtered it in proof, but it was already (the early 90's) a time when blues, etc. -- the old editorial process -- was disintegrating from the digial onslaught (partially economically based) of unbridled content / short deadlines.

I also want to mention before I go further that I always taught poetry.com and vanity publishing the hard way, with lots of contention, and that while former students have gone on to publish poems and books legitimately, and while many students -- including a wonderful poet from Detroit -- had spent literally thousands of dollars on poetry.com-related travel and other expenses for "awards banquets" -- other students went on to happily self-publish lots of chapbooks (as do the illustrious Mr. Lupert and Constantine).

And also that Kasey Mohammed has a serious academic poetical project involving the idea of badness and evaluation of poetry.

So flarf is not the first or perhaps the best test of badness and commercialism (and is not only one). I also remember a time that Nada and Gary and some others -- a brilliant choreographer in Portland whose name escapes me this second -- had been writing spam poems, before flarf, and I have always wondered if poet, publisher, musician Andrew Maxwell, one of SEVERAL LA google poets, in this locution being poets employed by google, have had, by virtue of their existance, influence on flarf practitioners, and what sort.

much of my work is of course about imposing personal meaning, and one of my problems with the HK poem is that there was a very specific meaning (it differed slightly from search engine to search engine and translation to translation) which was impervious to my attempts at control -- so I ended up trying to actualize and digest that (have I been in LA too long or what -- actualize); this is why the HK poem isn't flarf -- it takes place *after* the phantasm (or reproduction of it) has emerged

I would like to rise to the defense of my friends, and friends in poetry, but I feel that I'm not the best critic of flarf -- in my opinion, Kasey has made flarf into poetry, for example; his poems are not "mere" collage or found poems (as mine are not); if you've heard Nada read (she read with me at Belladonna in NY, along with Carolyn Bergvall) you know she is involved and present in her work -- perhaps not in the I = Nada, I really am writing about the cornfields around Iowa City 80's way, but, nevertheless....

for me, until I wrote the HK poem, my technology experience had led me to believe that flarf might be more about query writing than anyhting else; while in talks with Kasey, the search algorythms and indexes (of searched pages -- for example, google indexes the .info and some of the other newer extensions rather poorly) were things he's researched carefully and thoroughly -- the poetry ended up not being about the question -- this is one reason that my HK poem was not more centered on Japanese flavors of buddhism and religious questioning -- because they query ended up not being important to the construction, including the idea of questioning in the poem wouldn't crank it


from the "unsent post" list, some comments that didn't make it to WOMPO

I kept my surname, always intended to, but I picked the more usual of my familial nicknames after entering first grade in my hilljack hometown, and the more unusual of my familial nicknames when kicking the dust of that place away, because asking people to call me "Catherine" has always been to me an exercise in finding evil men who refuse not to call women by a diminutive (in my case, as I would usually have it, K/Cathy/ie, neither of my nicknames); of the very few friends I have who changed their names (most did not) most have regretted it.

My sister has more closely divided experience, and will probably change her name, but her problem is both her maiden name and her married name are names of fairly well-known actresses. This was a problem when she was acting.

My husband found out in graduate school that his name is from an unrelated guy he thought was his grandfather. His maternal grandparents changed the spelling of their Italian name. Not that this was a factor in my decision. Some of my maternal Polish and Danish relatives adjusted their names coming here. As my Dad's Mom liked to say, "we speak and spell the language." Her husband -- Daly -- didn't tweak, but Daly isn't the Gaelic; it is the English. Perhaps more important for my writing is my sense that I am the last of our "cell" of the Dalys.

Changing, hyphenating, using the "Mac" or the "O" etc., has more to do with class and ethnicity in the U.S than with anything else. I find it disturbing that women more likely to hew to societal traditions have less opportunity for knowledge outside that programming (younger, isolated, less education, more conservative politics / religion); the "market culture" asks what is your identity, your name, what you stand for, your family "worth" (the tale of the Sxxxxxxx family especially spoke to me of this), etc.

Without a stable name you haven't a stable identity, in writing, and part of my point about women's names changing is that our larger society is trying to keep women from having or establishing a stable identity and a familial / matrilineal identity. Another place where this is very easy to identify is in the translation and migration of names according to nationality and place of residence. For example, when there was a short plurality of relatively educated women without husbands, and they were actually quite mobile while they were not supposed to be leaving one place for another, women's names are "all over the place" the way they are today -- as on this list -- the "standard" of "stability" seems absurd with the prevalence of frequent moving, serial monogamy, etc. I tried to point this out in my first book, by including all the variations in spellings of everyone's names, and including the place in source material where the source names herself.

But that was a deliberate effort. On a more unconscious level, it is common to find noted in academia (especially in the sciences) that female academics try to show who they are through their bios, to "prove themselves," in a way male academics do not -- there is a certain level of assurance or assumption in the actual writing as well.


interesting threads on the FENCE / Suicide girls cover on WOMPO jiving (ok, it is "jibing" but...) with the "nudelipo" noulipo conference in LA

both convos have trended toward a discussion of 70s feminist performance art, which also featured female nudity

coming of age slightly later, but familiar enough with college & grad school & modern dance performances with nudity, I have to say I prefer Schneeman or the humor of E. Antin to a Fidlay, Sherman, or Sprinkle, and that nudity now doesn't carry the same message, ESPECIALLY given the ubiquity of style / lifestyle internet sites, the ability of many single women and couples to mke livings running such sites rather than working a life not about sex and style

[pause while giving SweetTarts to an assortment of "Gothic Divas" and "Graveyard Babes" who were of course 12-ish and wearing honest to god corsets, etc.]

my second or third thought (some other postings in the WOMPO discussion & backchannels, rtc.) include that were I not girlcotting the noulipo conference/writing with my limited time instead of seeing writers I've seen before / going to concerts with Ron / not going because they won't have me,

nudity is not the proper statement, IMO, constraint is, especially willing adoption of such -- I offer what I would have done as my performance proposal:

go to OSH and get nice spools of cotton rope in black, red, white, blue, and green, solicited and knotted up clothed! volunteers (male or female) as follows:

legs apart w/ spreader bar on floor, hands to feet, black rope -- "A"

arms together behind back, legs together, back, head and torso back, sort of a modified kneeling hogtie, white rope -- "E"

"I" is the easy one, though red rope butterfl-I would be really nice

"0" is mostly about positioning, I think maybe forward, head and shoulders following wrists bound to ankles, green rope!

"U" on back, arms and legs in the air, wrist near ankle, wrist near ankle, blue rope

obviously in order in the proper "order" to be read from the audience....


didn't make the grant deadline, or, rather, decided not to try to pull an all nighter Thursday and work all day Friday on it, since I wouldn't do that for poetry itself

thus, did work on poetry Thurs., yesterday and last night instead. And instead of all the other chores that have to be done in this dogpile

here are some items that I gave to Bruna Mori's wonderful studetns at Sci Arc:

Some Thoughts on Form for Discussion

Is the tension between form and content an interesting tension, one which leads to a fruitful dialectic?

What are other “easy dualisms” that lead to similarly productive conversations?

What types of forms, in your experience, are most likely to yield results which have a ramification on content? Here “form” and “content” can be writ large – form or format or formula, content or presentation or flow –

What ideas or theories would you like to test by introducing them into such a conversation? Do you hope to achieve anything thereby? Any expectations? Any other ways to devise a test?

If not seeking to manufacture a device or test or experiment on ideas or language, what forms can you discover or find? Are these wedded to content? Can they be applied to different content, or can the same content be usefully put in a different form?

How can you best apply a given content, a given form, a given device, discovery, or finding? How can you best move from idea to art? Is that movement shaped by the idea, or should the movement / process shape the idea? How does this interplay “go”?

old talk from synthink I also handed out

Realism? Romance? Querying Chaos and Constraint

I want to informally introduce some of my thinking around this project and suggest some things for you to try or "test out" in this arena.

"Oos" serves as a transition between projects of mine. One of my larger projects takes public domain materials -- most online -- in the "literary canon" from Piers Plowman to Leaves of Grass and beyond and "reads" them, finds poetry in them ("found poetry"), translates them -- increasingly unreliably. Essentially what I have been doing is superimposing 20th Century literary history on texts -- artifacts of literary history. Another project reworks, with increasing levels of intention, medieval, renaissance, and early modern women's writing, which is, by and large, religious in nature.

The poems I'm about to read are written from anonymously-written prayers. They are merely ascribed to St. Bridget. The title of the prayers -- Oos -- obviously inspired my constraint -- each begins with the poetic "o" -- as did the typical female gender / vowel binary, and some nice puns, avowal, vow --

These particular prayers are interesting: the include the questions Jesus asks during the passion AND unlike many prayers, they are less questions in and of themselves -- they are commands -- that God remember. In a certain sense, then, the original prayers AND my constraints AND the final result -- are like queries. Queries in Stored Query Language or even those you enter into search engines online are both commands and questions. These prayers are my text bed or data; the constraints, my queries. As I read and reread the result, the poems, I marvel at the way the language use -- the mix of imperative and interrogative -- remains through my cutting and rearranging and rewording.

In Buddhism, all schools, there is quite a focus on asking the right questions and arriving at the answers which are there all along -- the questions change the questioner and the system being queried.

If all of you take the same source as I did and impose the same constraints that I did, you will end up with different answers. If you take the same source and design your own constraints, you will design different constraints. If you were to choose a version of the source -- this exists in several different versions of LATIN and of English -- some of it older English -- you might use Quick Latin to do a machine translation -- you would end up with a different result.

In a certain sense, how different is this from taking the same zen koan -- what is the sound of one hand clapping or some such -- and meditating on it?

Back to my title, this type of poetry writing is generally viewed as anti-romantic, but the lack of control over the result, the movement from the known into the unknown -- is essentially romantic WHILE the way language operations are depicted is more realistic than anything else -- the poems display their machinery or theory in a way -- you can see what the constraints and procedure for writing them was by reading them.


Why do you like to make art?
What subjects do you prefer? Why?
What processes and techniques do you use? Why?
How is your work different from others?
What do you see in your artwork?
What do other people say they see?
What are your goals and aspirations as an artist?
Who or what inspires you?

I tend to distrust writing advice that includes "don't edit" "don't analyse" but then I guess that's what makes writing these things so hard. I think I'm going to write a mission statement instead. While those are too vague and obviously committee-written, they aren't so new agey.

this sample written by the writer of the above:


The changing light of day and the moods it creates are the foundations of my watercolors. My paintings usually start with a color idea, then evolve into compositions in which color is the primary subject. To me, art is a synthesis of my personal feelings, the subject or colors that inspire me and my materials and techniques. Serenity and simplicity are my primary goals.

although I often used weather as a trope for emotion in my earlier poems....
the artist statement is an introduction to you, and most viewers rely on you as a way into your art

* Be brief. Two or three paragraphs of no more than three sentences each is a good length for an introductory statement.

* Tell why you create your art and what it means to you.

* Appeal to the emotions. Convey feeling about your art.

Those gosh darn emotions again

* Avoid complex explanations, obscure references, and artspeak.

* Try not to catagorize your work or compare yourself to others.

* Use language that everyone can understand.

am making my own non organic non free range chix broth today, after my dismay at the 99 cents store low sodium broth, which I turn to in times of need, containing YEAST

so, the bacteria test (lactulose breath test) being in the normal range, we've still got

no dairy (well, I just got some of that milk with the enzyme in it)
no fructose / corn syrup / fruit as is contained in non dairy creamer I'd been making ice cream out of & I think in rice dream -- got to check, except I'm out of rice dream
no wheat
careful with rye, any high - fiber anything
no raw nuts except pine nuts, macadamias
no peas, beans, peanuts
no soy
no caffeine
no avocados, cucumbers
low fat
low carbs (watch corn, rice, etc. very carefully)

what about tomatoes? the question of the day
more about artist statements -- oh joy

* Artists are artists, not writers, so think seriously about hiring a professional writer or editor, preferably one with an art background, to help you convey what you want your statement to convey in language that people can understand.


* Connect what your art expresses with the medium that you're expressing it in. For example, if your art is about world peace, and it consists of twigs protruding from pieces of clay, explain the connection. Arbitrarily stating that twig/clay protrusions represent world peace leaves people wondering. If, of course, the object of your art or your statement is to leave people wondering, then that's O.K. In art, everything is O.K., but in order to succeed as an artist, someone beside yourself generally has to get the point of what you're doing.

one of the things I realized in the shower was that my fantasy of content being dissolved in the perfect form/at is nealy identical to the way that anne carson phrases the goal of her spiritual journey based on eros -- YUCK!!!!

so, obviously, that was not the answer I was seeking to deliver.

[break while I water the herbs with *miracle gro* my lawn certainly not organic]
[break while I learn my parents suffered only minor damage from Wilma]
[break while my husband points out that lower left quadrant of the garage door is slightly less greeny oriental ginger than the reamining quadrants]
this reply from greenlagirl:

I don't support farm subsidies either, but I totally disagree with the "right wing" notion that fair trade is a handout. I think it's a choice on the part of the consumer to opt to pay the social and environmental costs of coffee.

I totally agree that there's a huge coffee glut right now -- But I think the fair trade movement works to remedy that. To qualify for fair trade certification, coffee co-ops have to work to 1. diversify their crops, and 2. improve their coffee quality. They're also strongly encouraged to cultivate organic, shade-grown coffee -- all efforts that'll reduce the coffee glut and produce better-tasting, more environmentally friendly coffee.

Unfortunately, as of now, people associate fair trade coffee with just higher prices (handouts) paid to farmers -- A very incomplete view of fair trade efforts...

Still, how can you drink the 7-11 stuff? That shit's truly heinous -- and I'm thinking about taste here, not socio-environmental kindness --

Anyway, we can talk about this more the next time we see each other ;) Hey, what's happened to all your curating activities?

And about wine -- Have you tried the Finca Solano tempranillo Crianza? The stuff's truly yummy -- and cheap, via Trader Joe's! The owner even wrote me after I wrote about it:

I also recommend Some of the stuff from Wally's Wine in Westwood:

and the organic Louis Jadot Beaujolais-Villages – avaliable at Bristol Farm's.

Seriously, the stuff's improved :)

I'll be looking out for the Hello Kitty work!


from a post to greenlagirl -- obviously I am not a green!

I think fair trade as a concept is seriously flawed, although I realize that in reality there is no free trade; my background in fair trade is mostly from oddly right wing trade unionism in Illinois

there is a worldwide coffee glut (also a wine glut, but no complaints from me about that), and since coffee growing depletes the soil so much that it has exacerbated worldwide deforestation, having more small farmers try to support themselves growing a product it doesn’t pay to grow – in other words, I don’t support any farm subsidies or price supports, including those in the US to support “the American way of life – farming”, and think many many coffee growers ought to go out of business and do something else instead; I don’t know that pressuring corporate resellers to pay more for their raw materials works

on the other hand, while I don’t like what Monsanto is doing, what the US government is paying for them to do, and what the US government is pressing some Latin American countries to allow Monsanto to do to their farming industries, I don’t think banning technology (like GMOs) per se ever works, only boycotting or refusing to allow certain corrupt financial practices, subsidies, etc. So if I were motivated, I would be motivated to lobby to discontinue state & federal funding and subsidies of agribusiness, not motivated to pressure starbucks or whole foods or whatever. I shop cheap.

I’m not supposed to have milk or caffeine or sugar any more, so that put the kibosh on my occasional Starbucks splurge – always an occasional splurge – I’ve almost always bought coffee from 7-11 or AM/PM where it is cheaper or made it at home and brought it in, or drunk it at work if it is free, and I don’t like soy (grew up in the “soybean capitol of the world” where our air & water is so poisoned by runoff and processing that most every woman eventually gets some form of cancer! and the water is now undrinkable! soy & corn sweetener agribusiness is not morally superior to steak…)

Now, why organic? See above, naturally, but... eh.... Although admittedly now there is some decent organic wine, while when I was in grad school, organic wine was truly foul.

you should mention the 7 free trees from the city & how the city free tree list is a good list of native trees / trees that grow well here in LA where people seem for some odd reason to hate trees; some woman in Venice did a really stupid LA Times article about how she wanted to hire a Mexican from Home Depot to dig the hole for her free tree (she could only find a place for one) because it was so hard to dig it
I'm not going to write a lot about CONFITEOR for the grant application, but I promised something for Robert Archambeau about DaDaDa, and I'm presenting to Bruna Mori's class Thursday (probably OuLiPo and beyond), so it makes sense to do this now.

-- a brief break during which I believe my parents house may have lost a window or two to Wilma --

CONFITEOR consists of four volumes, three trilogies, DaDaDa, OOD: Object-Oriented Design, Dea, and a fourth volume, Addendum.

DaDaDa consists of three book-legth sections, Reading Fundamentals, Heresy, and Legendary. OOD has three sections; right now these are Eidolon, obj. x ("objective x" or "objects") and Cosmology (also, in various versions, Singularity). Dea has an untitled, unwritten section with all K/Cath e/a r y/i n/e s a la bp nichol perhaps a bit, a section called Reformation which may work itself into OOD since no one's committed to publish that yet. Other works keep moving out of the project (Hello Phantasm / Mime, maybe "obj. x", Phylum (to go to blue lion), Cookery, Paper Craft (currently being read by Bill Allegrezza I hope), etc.

Thus, DaDaDa starts with reading, specifically selective reading, reading as a creative act. The etymological device used mostly in Heresy is introduced in the Oos poems in R.F., because those poems are the transition to the middle volume. I've mentioned previously one of the ideas behind Heresy is that literary criticism, specifically interpretive readings based on techniques for reading classical (greek and roman) texts, was considered heresy when applied to reading the (catholic) bible.

[a later development of this was an issue during the reformation -- roman catholics not moving to vernacular mass until the 1960s and not condoning (and even prosectuing) widespread distribution of any but especially vernacular bibles -- in order to prevent independent reading / thinking about "the text", and this will be in the reformation book]

the legendary comes from a project that never really panned out (maybe it will, who knows) of doing a The Golden Legend for contemporary "celebrity" culture -- the poem that was the first of these is the Lana Turner poem, complete with false etymology (lana - laine - wool, "sweater girl"). The Golden Legend was of course particularly made fun of during the reformation. The legendary became one for mostly female mostly craftspeople. The legendary is not about identity. The names, and the source(s) of heresy is not about identity or even the content of what the original female writers wrote about; neither are the works in reading fundamentals.
First paragraph. Begin with a simple statement of why you do the work you do. Support that statement, telling the reader more about your goals and aspirations.

content - form

Since I am largely a poet as part of my "being in the world" to be existentialist about it, or to be humanist about it, since I am a poet with authority limited by reality, the content of my work is basic and localized, in that it is what I am thinking, experiencing, learning at the time of its writing. It answers the five w and one h question. The form of my work is various and derived from the content and the writing process, rather than enforced from outside the content, yet this form is generally in service of assembling a work, and sometimes the driving idea behind a work is a formal one.

subject - object

universal - specific

i don't know if I want to structure this opening para. off a duality tho

Second paragraph. Tell the reader how you make decisions in the course of your work. How and why do you select materials, techniques, themes? Keep it simple and tell the truth.

I select materials and techniques because they seem likely to yield the results I am seeking. I select materials and techniques according to my concept; then, in the end, in commenting, it is difficult for me to get beyond the materials and techniques I used to explain why I used them, because by that time it seems blatantly obvious. An example of this would be my cooking poems; it seems obvious to want to use -- to bring forward as an important source -- women's writing in cookbooks, because this is a practically untouched area of women's craft and thinking to be dealing with -- and to apply techniques from cooking to the poems also seems obvious to me, not only because they are the perhaps female source of techniques now branded "oulipo" such as "larding" -- oh dear, I have drifted from the artistic statement. To use materials and techniques which have meaning to produce a result which has the same meaning is to seek a unity of content and form which makes the opposition or duality of such a formulation fall away and the poem / point shine.

Third paragraph. Tell the reader a little more about your current work. How it is grew out of prior work or life experiences. What are you exploring, attempting, challenging by doing this work.

how would current work not grow out of past work

my current work continues to press my assumptions about poetry, writing poetry, and the world to see what gives

for example, writing two nights ago -- working from notes for the reformation book -- the idea that the reFORMation is about giving the opportunity to establish authority back to the individual is obviously having as much an effect on this statement writing as the conference panel proposal

Good for the Imperial Highway project!

from dirt

1) between minimalism and politics? What are its applications in

my politics isn't minimalist, I would think libertarianism is minimalist; the only aspect could be 'keep national politics out of religious politics' and 'keep public politics out of private politics' except that I favor public funding for medical

2) is more important: minimal length or minimal substance?

is is more important to be clear and concise than to be minimal

3) minimalism in the real world. Cite specific examples or
4) the animal kingdom, what would it
5) in the year 2100.

is minimalism futuristic? maybe
is it essentialism? no

6) say about our culture? Is the form reactionary or progressive; is it

more likely to be reactionary or progressive; minimalism is not the status quo

7) subversive?
five true sentences about my work:

1. I wrote it.

More controversial than it might seem to those unfamiliar w/ Barthes, i.e. http://faculty.smu.edu/dfoster/theory/Barthes.htm Especially since the project I am proposing involves "insetting" found poems from Imperial Highway and probably the other highways running east - west through LA, on a backbone of what some might consider to the the poem part, a la the Vauxhall poems

2. when I work with "findings" I am currently reminded of a thing I blabbed out without really evaluating if I believe it or not on the Radio Star conference panel proposal,

Catherine Daly argues with the notion that poetry is a "product of
>identity." Poetry, she claims, is better thought of as a result of a
>network-a dialog in text between a sensing being and the world that she
>is appropriating. There is no "I" writing a poem about "something": a
>poem constructs an absence of the world, and not the presence of a

3. I begin a piece with the idea for it

4. I know a piece is done when I -- have to stop working on it. I usually revise extensively but i TRY TO QUIT WHEN IT GETS TO THE POINT i HAVE NO NEW APPROACHES / CONCEPTS / LEARNINGS FROM THE PROCESS TO REVISE TOWARD oop - you can tell the parrot chewed my shift key -- when revising is no longer making changes I think are significant

5. When my work is going well, I am filled with a sense of "my work going well." Duh.

other sentence completion:
When people see my work, I'd like them to "read it and respond."
one one side of an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper, provide a brief artist statement (what your work is about & how you make it), describe your artisitic development, and discuss the nature of some recent work in detail

80 points are awarded for "excellence" so this is what somehow shows that

so this will not include anything that falls under the confiteor project; it should be a discussion of the dystopia poems (of course, calling Los angeles dystopia -- ah well) and the vauxhall poems, as well as the place poems

My work is about "calling it as I see it." In other words, it is my way of delivering my thoughts or philosophy....

a background search on "how to write an artist statement" reveals:


1. What are your favorite things about your work? Jot down short phrases that capture your thoughts. Don't worry about making sense or connections. The more you stir up at this point, the richer the stew.

I started writing poetry when I was in college, and it was bad and my friends told me to take a class. I wanted to be a writer, not a poet. Novelist. At some point I decided to put everything into poetry. I think was because I wanted to go to grad school (I was working as a writer and living at home, and didn't see many other money/career options that didn't involve grad school; because I'd lost my religion major -- my thesis advisor went on sabbatical, her replacement didn't support my idea, and by the time Ron Keiner offered his support, it was Spring Break, I wanted to go home with my friends, and I didn't want to stay on campus for the rest of senior year grokking a thesis I hadn't gotten beyond outline and research due to lack of faculty support -- this left me with an English / Literary Writing major with poetry as my only viable sample (i.e., not fiction or nonfiction, though I had campus paper columns and some stories -- these weren't particularly well published -- or written!)).

when it is going well, ideas come quickly, and the poem seems to write itself; recently, I start from notes -- these may be research notes, those peculiar things I call "poem notes" or a general concept that's not even written down -- a sort of "someday I want to try this" mental note. From these I tend to improvise, often with the help of information found online or in books, or just from my personal associations with words, ideas, people, places....

my favorite thing about my work is that I feel it sort of sparkles where it is really good, whether "musical, pleasurable, fun & funny," or dark and glistening, or pointed and on target.

2. I'm skipping making a list of descriptive words, because I will choose odd words like "sparkly" and I think this should be very seriously and professionally written.

3. I don't have a favorite tool but I love to use tools, apply them to poetry, and to make this use as new/specific to me as I can.
My favorite material is information, because I think it is better to start with an idea, a "take" on the world, a "finding" which seems to be "out there" but is actually perceived because it is "in here" than to start with blabbing around in general like I'm doing here -- this is my problem with writing bios, artistic statements, and resumes (my resume is always *awful*). And journals.
I like to think that my work at its best is unique, that something has turned out well when I think it would give pleasure to a reader to encounter several times, when I have a grasp on a lot of what it is doing as a piece of writing / an idea.

What patterns emerge in your work? Is there a pattern in the way you select materials? In the way you use color, texture or light?

For the past few years, I thought of my work as proceeding in five different modes; Rachel Loden pointed out to me that to her, they converged, and I am coming back to that convergence of modes. The common pattern is one of assembly, which may seem odd since a lot of the work seems deconstructed, taken apart, exploded, fragmentary, but I see it as the result of a diligently applied, smoothed, process -- grown from seeds?

I do everything differently from the way I was taught. I see myself as proceeding in order to teach myself, in order for me to learn more about poetry / philosophy, to gain knowledge and experience. Why. How differently. I was taught mostly in two fairly straightforward creative writing programs which emphasized confessional free verse narratives. I came out of those programs writing lyric poems -- which I would distinguish from confessional free verse narrative! so I was schooled by my reading / what I thought about what I read, rather than "instruction." So I guess, what I learned was that I read for pleasure and ideas and information, not for another point of view, an identity I will never inhabit, to be schooled in an experience I will not have, to share a little human moment?

I used to tell my students you have to find the way that works for you -- when you find it, you untap something very rich and productive.

I don't have a favorite color. I like warm and vibrant colors more than cool ones, but fairly clear and crisp rather than muddy. I like poems that "dance" and dazzle, that are clear and crisp and vibrant, too.

the next steps are etymological, dealing with the word list I didn't make -- oh no!!!

6. Write five sentences that tell the truth about your connection to your work. If you are stuck, start by filling in the blanks below.

When I work with__________ I am reminded that___________.

I begin a piece by______________.

I know a piece is done when__________________.

When my work is going well, I am filled with a sense of _____________.

When people see my work, I'd like them to ________________.

[brief break wherein I dig up a grape vine, clean up a tiny squirrel literally cut in half by some mysterious force, then put at the end of the driveway of the abadoned house next door, and edge a planting bed with bricks]
am downloading ipodder lemon, applying for COLA grant; figure I'll post the stuff I write for the grant here -- this is a brief description of my poetry:

while I view myself as a well-rounded poet because my work appeals to the eye and ear as well as the brain, my work is judged more experimental that not

this means my work is documentary while being personal
researched while improvised
open to reader interpretation while conveying specific meanings

while consisting largely of words on a page, my work embraces new media and the other arts

I make a special effort to make works that reveal their facets differently in performance, on screen, and on the page


wow great spam blog comment

Do think you could get a banker's desire to force money into your laps?

chrysler finance enligtens about chrysler finance

in fact, there was a club called, respectively, LAPS then PINKS (or vice versa) in NY on my route to work at a bank

not that chrysler's offering lap dances, although THAT MIGHT HELP -- they've certainly brought daimler benz low (tho we also know it is real estate not merch driving KMart, McD's, and finance behind Sears, many car cos); suppose question is what's the difference between a fatty, salty, burger and an SUV?
Oh, in case you're wondering -- when I babelfished the thing, what I did is I translated to japanese, and then the English words that didn't translate, I search for in Google Japan, taking the first characters that turned up; then, when I went back to English, I did the same thing with the Japanese with the machine couldn't translate; you can see this where gate keeping pages for porn sites (I don't read Japanese!) are turning up instead of things that were slightly "pink" in the original.

You can see in the sections the various original "phrases" (they aren't phrases or concepts -- more like nodes).
Of the interim thoughts I had was to do illustrations with google image search and the like, but truthfully, the image, and the true name of my materials are trademarked, and I don't want B*****-like trouble. The other thing is that this, while rife with products, is image poor.

The thing that starting with the phantasm, as I did, rather than reading / recognising it, as K. Silem Mohammed did, is that this is even more of an anti-flarf. I'm not starting with a lack, but doing what the increasingly commercialized web is trying to make me do, which is be steered (cyber) toward marketing to buy (increasingly emphemeral) products. No information here.

And of course, while flarf is built on a third generation New York School variation in diction and communication aslant, this poem is not one of my MYS not-in_NY poems; it is a post-canto-like thing where I would normally "just go on my" ear rather than nerve.
toward a hello kitty afterword

I feel a little strange starting this before precisely finishing the hello kitty poem (Hello Phantasm / Mime), but I am trying to get accustomed to the sensation of not every finishing it, and hoping that something I write may lead into a sense of finality. Plus, since I've got some preliminary comment on Barrent Watten's site, when the poem, already started, changed irrevocably to its current perhaps unfinishable according to my current practice state, and since Eileen Tabios has an afterword on her Ahadada book, well, I might as well get started.

HP/M is my perverse version of flarf. In effect, it is the opposite of flarf, because I started with parts of the poem taken from a Hello Kitty coloring book (purchased in Vancouver in a dollar store in the basement of the Hudson Bay Company, I think) which exhorts on the front cover, "USE YOUR IMAGINATION!" Of course, using a coloring book seems the opposite of using one's imagination to me. This coloring book has very simple word games and other sorts of assignments as well.

And so, leading as I usually do into WHAT I have done rather than WHY, as though WHY would be perfectly obvious, I used the seeds of text from the coloring book as well as what I'd already written in search engines. I figured I'd use the search engine results as I would normally use free-association in "this sort of poem," which was written in a mode AFTER a manuscript called PHYLUM which uses children's school workbooks, notably several with perception excercises [I'm working on that to send to Blue Lion, yes it is that long], and after "Palm Anthology" in DaDaDa and the poems in "OOD: Object-Oriented Design" (published around here and there but not in book form). I write "written in a mode" except that of course writing this poem -- as any large bust-up -- has pretty much called everything about that mode into question, in a relatively destructive (rather than constructive) way. For example, if "I" were "really writing" this "poem" it would "mean something" and I would be in "control" of some of what that "meaning" was, or at least know it. And I would rewrite to heighten that. If I were writing the Hello Kitty / her twin sister Mimmy poem, it would be *lots sexier." It would be about a lack of opening, a closure, about security in some way; it would have way more about cosplay; it would have a lot more about manufactured japanese americans use verses manufactured english japanese use.

Continuing to "cover" how this was "constructed," so I used google to write the section called "Ogle." Whenever I had a question, I used google, when I wanted to elaborate, accumulate, around a word or moment, I used google. Then, not having kept terribly good notes, I went back to the source coloring book, and used Alta Vista to "translate" or rewrite the poem using the different search engine. Since I originally used alta vista as my perferred searcher and since I am more comfy with the technical references alta vista turns up with greater regularity, I liked "View" initially far more, although it is a colder (and much shorter! since there's less I wrote) poem. Then, I did it all again with dictionary.com, althugh I was using first their web search, which uses google, and then I used their article search.

Then I translated the whole HK section. I know, I know, it was a pile of translations. THEN I TRANSLATED IT using the precursor practice to flarf, which is babelfishing. Because I'd been thinking about Japanese fake English, and because HK and M are Japanese, I translated to Japanese and back. I also used print.google.com (using while it lasts!), Auerback's Mimesis (one of the few books both Ron and I owned -- another was Derrida's WRITING AND DIFFERENCE), and a lot of Adorno. This is because Hello Kitty is a mass media product with a twin sister.

Of my coinages, I'm particularly enamoured of "googlemancy."