Phone Interview

Expected Question:

Ongoing involvement with the public / literary life of the students?

I've run events since I was a freshman in college and suddenly ended up in charge of all Student Activities in time to raise $30K for the spring weekend concerts.

I run a few interesting series in LA -- but I know you've already got some interesting series on campus and in Baton Rouge.

I also know you send your MFAs to literary festivals in NO.

A grad and undergrad creative writing conference -- with some lit (most grad lit conferences have only a nod to creative writing) -- might be very cool.

I conpect to continue my involvement online -- but obviously know about [university press with huge reputation] and the journals --

an online center for contemporary regional writing -- modeled on the epc -- could be a fantastic resource and opportunity -- it is more like the New Zealand writing archive in my vision -- and give creative writing students a place for their ezines, chaps, research into [regional] poets (that they already do) --

a big, bad, contentious listserv would be great, too!
Phone Interview

Expected Question:

Why this department, class, etc.?
I add new mediums to poetry writing and other creative writing workshops.

I have experience in professions where writing students can find careers.

I have an outloook on form, source, and process suited to the instutional home of [very distinguished literary review and press] and [very different but also very well known literary review and press].

I amplify the strengths / interests of the current faculty (in art movements and poetry, and in religious studies and poetry).

I will continue to bridge the literature / culture and writing workshops, as I view writing as an application of learning.

Actual question:
How will you shepherd our students to publication?

Actual answer:
I currently work with my creative writing students to take the fear and trembling out of submission of poems by focussing on mechanics and scale -- make a mail merge, buy a roll of stamps and a box of envelopes, and research the markets.

I also try to break down preconceived notions of what poetry writing "ought to be" about.

While not required in my current adjunct role, I do provide students with a "push" and advisement: my students have gone on to the PhD program in Creative Writing at USC, the MA program in Creative Writing at University of Cardiff, Wales, and the MFA program at UC Irvine. They've published reviews (alienated.net), interviews, edited poetry sections of journals (getunderground.com), poems (online, 2River View, muse apprentice guild, etc.), chapbooks, *books* (two under contract!!!).

My students have come to my classes after completing PhDs in English at Stanford, MFAs at ASU, low res MFAs, etc.

I advise students to not enter contests of any sort for individual poems, but urge them instead to spend similar amounts of time and attention researching (including purchasing issues and books) legitimate journals publishing poems written in a similar vein and publishers with open submissions policies publishing manuscripts by new poets.

I design courses which include participating in the larger life of poetry by writing and publishing reviews (largely online) and giving and attending readings, learning about academic conferences, book festivals, etc. (I note [institution's] students commonly attend [well known book festival].

Unasked Question:
Dream course?

I design and redesign all of the courses I offer (including the online literature and online creative writing workshops) -- so many of those courses have been dream courses.

Currently, I'd like to develop a "forms of creative nonfiction" course (types of essays, other belles lettres including letters (i.e., like Open Letter magazine)), journal excerpts, autobiography vs. memoir, flash nonfiction, poetics statements, "ars nonfiction." etc.

I'd also like to design a guerilla publishing course, where students publish and review chapbooks, zines, broadsides, newsletters, etc., and where the quests are not esteemed editors but pr, marketing, advertising, etc. professionals.


I appreciate your approach here, and am happy with your decision.

So thank you.

At 10:50 AM -0800 11/25/03, Catherine Daly wrote:

>Hm. Very interesting. It IS nonfiction.
>Did you know that the founder of Elam's root beer stand in Decatur, IL,
>called in the note on the mortgage of the root beer stand (then
>operated by my parents best friends) and attempted to sue me for libel
>when my poem (my first nationally-published & I-got-paid poem) about
>being a car hop there was published?
>You can change it to Crimp or Cramp or something (Mrs. Violet Crimp?
>Mrs. Violent Cramp?); frankly, [the model of the story] was the butt of the majority
>of jokes at St. Patrick's Grade School in Decatur, IL, and widely known
>for her eccentric attire, figure, and behaviour. Boody, IL, is the
>punch line of most jokes about central Illinois, naturally.
>I know this sounds insincere, too! I really hate most everyone I know
>from central Illinois. I try to be a nice person, but at the same time I don't care
> [about the feelings of the friends & family of the model for the story]
>Do what you think is best;
>I should have changed the name -- but I think you understand -- this
>name is magic.
>-----Original Message-----

>O, I must have had an old address. I wrote about that story because we
>had a complaint from ___'s granddaughter. Little did I know that
>the story was non-fiction. Even though that's what we say we like and
>expect. Anyway, with the name, I suspected that the piece was
>made up, and ran it because it was funny. The woman who wrote me
>worried that her own daughter might find the piece through a Google
>search and be startled/offended/mortified to learn that her grandmother
>smelled of chicken shit, &c.
>Is it possible, for the benefit of the young impressionable, yet
>Internet Savvy great-grandaughter that you could change the name,
>to something equally funny?
>I realize this sounds an awful lot like censorship, or something
>equally bad, and I would understand you reluctance to changing
>anything. But, well, I am only trying to accommodate.


As a readings coordinator and a reviewer, I receive press kits, albeit mostly from local performance poets or from small presses publishing religious fiction.

However, as a person continually looking for readings, I am also asked for books, which cost me abt $10 each, quite a hefty fee for something apparently expected to be send to everyone, and press kits, which I am attempting to gradually improve, in order to be booked for a reading, festival / book fair appearance, etc.

Thus far, my press kit consists of:

a printout of an author photo (not an actual headshot) with the flip side printed with the parts of my cv / resume about me-as-an-author,

a color printout (not an actual offprint) of my book jacket with the flipside printed with the parts of my cv / resume about the book,

a floppy (sticker of book front cover as label) containing the .pdf of the book,

sometimes some sample postcards and other handouts from readings (lists of songs, artists, or etc. I've got in my book),

sometimes CDs,

a cover letter.

1) what else should be in or out?

2) is there a better way to go about this?

3) any readings coordinators, book festival bookers, reviewers, out there want one?
Web sites are, in my view, a necessity, but they are not a part of any but an electronic press kit.

However (and this is part of what I think the web is for), it is quite common for performance poets and agented authors and authors on huge presses to have press kits -- either print-out-able as a press kit (all the info in a clean and simple format or in an attached .pdf) or an "online press kit" as part of their sites.

Susan Wheeler, Thalia Field, Shelley Jackson, Jeanne Beaumont's presence at WW Norton, and the Janet Holmes / Rachel Loden / Stephanie Strickland site at pomegranate were author websites I looked at particularly carefully as far as the run of what most authors have made or make vs. what they are generally provided. This is quite different from the better "academic / author" website like Juliana Spahr's, IMO.

The press kit for the performance poets generally includes sound files, links to poems, links to reviews, self-published or self-reprinted (electronically) poems, links to the blog, poetics statements, a schedule / calendar of dates, etc.

Among my models for the press kit were those on Iris Berry's, Exene Cervenka's, Daphne Gottlieb's, and some other websites, although mine is not that glossy right now.

A pet peeve of mine is noncommercial authors with a ".com" rather than another (noncommercial) extension.

Catherine Daly

***Link to first online review: http://www.sidereality.com/volume2issue4/reviewsv2n4/reviewofdadada.htm


Wedding Blog










What would a Good Writing Rate Be?

Professionally, I have worked with several high level executives (many ivy league grads, advanced degrees, the whole nine yards) who were told by writers fearful of their jobs that they were incapable of writing without a ghost or "real writer" -- my response to this type of nonsense has always been to encourage them & their writing, to get them enthusiastic about writing, even -- since it is supervising the rewriting, editing, and publishing that one wants to do, and where the skill is involved, IMO. But I am interested in familiarizing my co-workers with the process -- that everything is revised, that almost every word is changed, etc., that I don't get a little tape from a Dictaphone some jerk has carried into the men's room with him (yup, real and telling detail) and then magically transform it into a publishable book -- I believe a technical writer who is not a technologist is utterly worthless, for example. That said, while I have long been at the point where I can sit down and just key in publishable documentation (incl. online help, layout, graphics, step by step end user manuals, installation) for a client server system, i.e., I don't need to outline or interview or anything, that speed has been expected -- the "surely we can have the 200 page book with the 35 man hours and $1500 we've allotted" argument.

This is the root of my insistence that my students can write and publish and that they must stay on the accredited side of workshops. A great many local authors -- you know who some of them are -- rely on private workshops for their income. They tell their students, perhaps after a year of these classes, during which they dole out writing exercises without explaining key information like WHY the exercise is supposed to yield something interesting IN WHAT WAY and generally studiously avoid commenting on punctuation and grammar (I get a lot of former private workshop students in my workshops) that they might be ready for a master class, and that they teach a master class (somehow, miraculously). That after a few years of this apprenticeship, they might be ready to prepare a chapbook for self publication that the poet can book doctor for $1000 - 2500. That, if that person becomes *a follower,* he might be introduced to other *famous poets* who can help him (*for more money*), because *a class or two with someone else might be good.* (I think, aside from recommender cultivation and thesis reviewers, NO THREE arts workshops attended should be by the same person, and NO TWO at the same level.)

Research, interviewing and reviewing, of course, is unpaid -- although at my paying market -- I think I keep getting assigned since I don't take the full pay, I take partial payment and copies -- full pay's 10 cents a word. For the [nameless] review, I assume fiction reviews are $1500 - 2500., since friends have been paid that for fiction reviews, while I receive $150-250 for a poetry omnibus of the same length.

I started a conversation on WOMPO -- creepy men have been querying me for "private writing instruction" and ghostwriting since I published my book -- exactly, oddly, the types of people who undermined my authority in class -- author / authority -- very interesting -- I would love to show them what constraint based writing really is! Just kidding. I actually don't like constraint-based writing that's not self assigned, even preferring the obsessive, because I think if a post grad, adult writer isn't self-driven, there's a problem.

Running the overnight help desk at Goldman Sachs during a mainframe windows conversion at the dawn of the .com revolution: $150/hr., 12 hour 4 pm - 4 am shifts required. Singlehandedly developing the intranet for the space shuttle orbiter maintenance engineers, including the systems which electronically stored the "greyback" documentation for fixes (a shelf of two sided paper), the templates for writing the documentation, and the "greyback" for the system itself: $75. / hr., 40 hour on premises work week required (though, truthfully, I believe NASA *paid* $250. / hr.). While I generally quote in the $150 - 250 / hr range, I've never gotten close to that, and I'm set up as a small business, etc.

I was very much tied to the idea of being paid what I was worth, since I work for money. I don't buy that self-actualization through your work / do what you want, money will follow tactic -- which, frankly, I have only seen used by people who were 1) trying to profit from me, 2) students who want to hear they can be a poet and survive by teaching, 3) those who love me --

I will say that some of my friends do demand high rates (book doctoring, etc.), and I am not impressed at the service they provide. I will also say that because I was paid (and will be paid, when I start working again), in general, 2/3 *or less* of what a man in my role makes and because my career plateaued (it actually did that several times, and I was able to worm around it eventually) (it will be the same in academia), I don't have as much money to spend on book publication, article writing, conference attendance, general hubris, etc. The guy who took the investment bank *entire intranet* *I developed* away from me now has TENURE at UCLA as a new media artist. He doesn't write or draw, and he no longer codes. He might do some 4gl work -- probably animation of "found" electronica (I think he postmodernly uses some old Atari computer game characters).


Some Words for the [to remain nameless] Institute

Today's Catherine Daly version of Marianne Moore's correspondance with Ford Motor Company, in which Moore did not name the Edsel.

i don't remember getting [your previous e-mail] at all -- so I am just trying to think really fast --

guide, wired, and vision are the three words that sort of pop out from your current materials, and the "three cs" logo seems like a sales brochure

independent together? guidance, independent vision

the _____ Institute
Nurturing Artists, Enriching the World

I don't love that either, but other options aren’t better --

The _____ Institute
Guidance for the Independent Visionary
Guiding the ...

The _____ Institute
Walking a New Path
A New Path

Together, about the World

I LOVE the old Duchamp quote on the 2002 catalog, "It’s the viewers which make the pictures"

The _____ Institute
Making the Pictures Making the World

Guide wires?

the words would be better if they weren't such junk words

Dare. Challenge. Create. Transform

Transform is the only good word there.

Envision. Produce. Transform. Sustain.


how about little oppositions,

Challenge :: Guide
Transform :: Sustain
Envision :: Touch

so what about if you just had a string of quotes, sorta like google results or from bartletts, from a keyword? with the keyword (ex., vision) bold -- they can be quotes from people who'll be at the institute or famous filmmakers

or what about several definitions (from peeps at the inst or famous filmmakers or whatever) of a word that's not said, like for vision,

seeing with one's own eyes (brakhage)


Blurbs & Jackets

Did you know that poets write the vast majority of their pr material, including the copy on their book jackets and their bio?

I honestly did not know this until a few months ago.
Cheating a Review, Part II

Retrofitting a review is using the poet's not-poetry writings (say, reviews) to illuminate the writing.

In some cases, this is just looking at what books the poet was assigned to review based on what the editors or publishers' publicists think the poet is good at writing about / knows a lot about. But, more often than not, you find very real opinions about poetry by looking at the reviews written (all you'd find about me at the moment).

If one were to look at my reviews, for example, one would see that I went off on Thalia Field for having no music whatsoever in her poetry, and that I praise one of my blurbers for the music in her poems. Then, you would go back to my book, and you would note that I quote a lot of music lyrics and that I have some poems that have a great deal of poetry-music and other poems that have *no* poetry-music. Thus, even before knowing quite what it is that I am trying to do, you know that some of it has to do with music, and with music and words together. So, you look closely at that. You might note that one of the poems with no music in it whatsoever is about a deaf woman. You might decide to do a review on this issue.
Cheating a Review, Part I

Where to find reviews online as examples, to cheat from:

Do you still have your LA Public Library cards? The *best* place to find reviews is Pro-Quest. However, if you're writing a capsule review, since library journal and publisher's weekly capsules are on amazon and barnes & Noble, try there too.

I.e., google the poet.


type in your Los Angeles Public Library card #

search for a periodical (Chicago Review, American Poetry Review, Antioch Review, Parnassus: Poetry in Review, etc. are all indexed here)

note: who reviewed this poet? a mainstream reviewer? a mainstream periodical?

OR type in the name of the poet you're searching on -- definitely the publisher's weekly review will come up, if there is one, and any major periodical publications

who likes this poet? who doesn't like this poet?

if your poet hasn't been reviewed, look up similar poets --

who is the poet like and unlike? what is her relationship to the canon? contemporaries? who likes this poet?

Celia: who influenced him? what's his stance re: ancient greek homoerotic poetry? camp? formalism/world war I homoerotic poetry? the new york school?

Jay: Stephanie Strickland, Pattie McCarthy, Cole Swensen, Anne Carson...


Catherine Daly reading from and signing her first book, DaDaDa
Salt Publishing, 2003 (*only* available in the UK now,
available at this reading,
& hopefully available elsewhere *soon*)

7:30 pm, Tuesday, August 26
Barnes & Noble Westwood
10850 West Pico Blvd.
West Los Angeles, CA 90064
(corner of Westwood & Pico in the Westside Pavilion Mall)

*free brownies*

I am focusing this first reading where I have something to sell
on the books related to the poems in DaDaDa (as well as that book),
as the reading's in a bookstore.

more info: http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857951.htm


PEN West Emerging Voices Fellows at Portrait of a Bookstore,
7 pm, August 23, 2003

The "venue of the contemporary poets," Portrait of a Bookstore, presents PEN West Emerging Voices fellows on two consecutive weekends, coinciding with alt.August and Sunset Junction alt. Poetry & Music

Beginning at 7 pm,

Ibarionex R. Perello,
Colleen Nakamoto, and
Nora Pierce

will be reading in the charming, intimate, tree-shaded brick patio of independent bookstore

Portrait of a Bookstore (behind Aroma Café)
4360 Tujunga Avenue
Studio City

in an event curated by Catherine Daly, author of DaDaDa (Salt Publishing) and the forthcoming Locket (Tupelo Press). http://www.catherinedaly.info

For more information about the store, call 818-769-3853.

if you haven't been there yet, here's a link: http://news.bookweb.org/booksense/1286.html

there's parking in the back, and usually street parking either on Tujunga or around the corner in this well-lit area where the only crime has been Robert Blake shooting his wife!

Catherine Daly

I am so glad you asked about this, as I’m thinking of writing about it, and adding some links to my website.

I increasingly don’t believe in book contests. I submit directly to publishers. More publishers than you may think read “over the transom”, and not all of them are academic publishers: Greywolf, Michigan State University Press, Kent State, Dalkey Archive, Coffee House Press, New Directions, Wesleyan, Eastern Washington UP, Ahsahta, etc. Then there are those who have reading periods, some with small fees (about half of “contest entry”), some without: futurepoem, Krupskaya, Kelsey Street, Carnegie Mellon, University of Illinois Press, University of Georgia Press.

Beyond that, it is possible to query publishers.

What you have done is 1) what I recommend, 2) the way it should be. You have shown potential publishers for subsequent books (and the poems in this book and the next) that you have identified an audience for your poetry. This is the time to say to the premium journals, “these poems will be included in my book…” or “these poems represent a significant development from those in my book…” blah blah.

Wait until you get a firm commitment and a contract, then by all means withdraw it from the contests. There are *plenty* of second book contests (University of Notre Dame/Sandeen, Green Rose, University of Wisconsin, and, of course, the National Poetry Series), but also – every time you have some contact with editors and readers, they are more likely to remember you and your name.


-----Original Message-----
From: Member1700@aol.com [mailto:Member1700@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:17 PM
To: cadaly@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Looking for some advice . . .

Dear Catherine:
I wonder if you can give me some advice. I have entered my book ms. in several contests over the summer. Haven't heard back from any of them yet.
But, I did send the thing to one book publisher, White Cloud Press--which hasn't done much poetry ( www.whitecloudpress.com ) but which is a legitimate publisher. And they gave it to their poetry editor, who is now showing a lot of interest in publishing the thing.


The easiest way to start is to get a book directly from the author (like the one attached -- it is the final proof, so still has some typos, undone fact checking, etc.) or from the library (I'm assuming Yale buys tons of new poetry books). *Query* places which publish reviews, starting with places the author's poems have appeared (of course they will want a positive review), mentioning that you have a review copy. Make it an open query -- I have this, I am a beginning reviewer, I am open for assignment, I would like to receive your review specs (length, style book, etc.)

Write the review "on spec," without waiting for a response. Hopefully, by the time you've finished, someone will respond. If not, start circulating it for publication. Online has a faster turnaround.

After you have placed the review, ask the REVIEW EDITOR if s/he will assign you another book to review. You will probably have to ask. Do not be daunted if there were tons of editorial changes (for example, Boston Review capsules are evolving to become more theoretical and less journalistic as Tim Donnelley (the poetry reviews editor) proceeds to his PhD; Chicago Review likes "freshman comp five paragraph themes" rather than review formats, etc.). If they've made tons of changes, know they probably do that to everyone; they might be glad you know what to expect after having been through the process.

Whether or not this happens, send e-mails and letters to other (better) review organs, using the review you've just had accepted for publication as a sample. Don't wait until it actually appears in print (the wait can be a year) -- just paste it / print it out. Editors don't expect xeroxes of the actual printed page or links.

AND send e-mails or hard copy to the PRESS: i.e., this is the review I just wrote of one of your books, this is where it was published, I would be interested in reviewing more of your books. This is the crucial step. You want presses to just start sending you their books. I.e., Copper Canyon sends me everything they publish. You can always place them SOMEWHERE.


Soft Avant-Guard


Calvin Bedient

Judith Goldman's avant-garde is not the soft kind prevalent in most of the more lively contemporary poetry magazines (among them The Colorado Review, Conduit, Fence, jubilat, New American Writing, Verse, and VOLT); it's the hard kind still associated with Language writing. But, unlike much of the latter, Goldman's work isn't earnest with didacticism. Almost always, it wants to delight as well as instruct

I had forgotten about the ominous soft rubber "hammer" reference which follows this... I would think Bedient would include Joshua Clover, Timothy Donnelly, Ethan Paquin, Brian Henry...


Barbara Fischer

As contemporary poets turn in increasing numbers to the fashionable strategy of combining experimental techniques with lyric and narrative modes, many of these recent efforts have taken on a familiar look and a familiar set of conventions. (Calvin Bedient, writing in these pages, recently dubbed it the "soft avant-garde.") One image leads to another in associative or nonsequiturial cascades. Sequences of sentence fragments are interrupted by bursts of conventional syntax. The page is manipulated as a visual space to the extent most word processors allow, with varied patterns of indentation and spacing. Descriptions reflect distraction and fragmentation, and are often accompanied by philosophical inquiries into the nature of perception. The poems explore (or ransack) personal and historical archives and document these explorations through cut-and-paste procedures. And throughout this accumulation and disjuncture, they dutifully rehearse the postmodern axiom that the natural, the personal, and the social are linguistically constructed.

But Kathrine, I think if Fulton wants fractal followers, then she's going to have to use and define her terms correctly! Daisy, I agree: it is boy art and girl art, and easier to think of in terms of visual boy art and girl art, which have more well-developed vocabularies now.

I think part of the problem here is that most LANGUAGE poetry was very political poetry, and I do not think most of these poets have been radicalized. Also, there's the way that third wave feminism seems to have left most younger white feminists out in the cold, because of the post colonial focus, while postfeminism is quite ecumenical. Then there are people like Lisa Lubasch, for example, quite focused on beauty, but I can't think of her work as soft avant guard.

1) I know absolutely nothing about John Ashbery

2) there are two Wallace Stevenses when the imagist-influenced blank verse Stevens is separated from the logical-mannerist Stevens, as is frequently done now! and I think it is Stevens' "snapped logic" which underlies so-called fractal verse

"If you put on an aquamarine choker and look in the mirror and don't see anything, then you must be the sea." a materialist lyric "she sang beyond the genius of the sea"?

3) New York School collage and etc. is derived from surrealism

4) John Cage has the more influential version of Chinese and Japanese poetry than Pound for most, I think, although he went through Pound, right??? and our current understanding of Japanese poetry, including Haiku, is far better than that of the imagists -- and it is that which is most important now, I think -- collage poetry, postmodern forms, collaboration (live & with lit, other arts, information, etc.) really do have a relationship to the Chinese book of poetry and poems written as alternate song lyrics as well as with Japanese season words, extreme constraints, etc. (which ultimately derives from Chinese in a way, but ... Sarah knows WAY MORE about this than I do)

5) let's not forget collage poetry master Marianne Moore

6) I would argue the "soft avant guard" poets are more influenced by James Tate's surrealism and David Lehman's version of the New York School than by Pound, Cage, and Ashbery, although they have been led to the male surrealists through Pound, Cage, Ashbery

While I know that this Janus-faced Stevens, together with Moore, Yeats, Pound (my first four poetry books) have influenced my own understanding of poetry -- perhaps, then, I read all poetry through this scrim --

there is a connection here. It's what my haiku class is about!

I started this my last workshop with a q&a rant because I figured "what the heck? I've already quit." Diverse as we are (everybody stayed), we are talking like grown ups about things like, yes, rapine.

My rant included:
-- This is a college-level course at a major research university. All workshops at this institution are 100-level (true).
-- Within this academic setting, I attempt to create a course which can read writing about any topic written in any way, and offer you support as you work on your writing. We don't shock easy, we're grown-ups.
-- Critique will be similar to that in college-level studio arts courses. I.e., if we think it's bad, we will tell you, and why, and in excruciating detail.
-- If you can't discuss it, don't bring it to class. Bring some cheesemo exercise poem. If you have to explain, you aren't ready to discuss.
-- Not only am I not a therapist, I have no people skills. Thus:
-- This workshop is not about you, what you know, me, what I know.
-- You are not teaching. You will not be able to teach this course after completing it.
-- We're readers, not recruits. We don't agree with you or each other. For example, I am prejudiced against privileging victimhood/twelve stepping, religious witnessing in poems, new age/psychology, misogyny, and hundreds of other ideas and practices. Doesn't mean you can't write poems on these topics; doesn't mean we don't understand your writing if it is on these topics; probably means I won't like it very much, and will give a very close reading.

Well, figured it was better to go out in a blaze of glory.

P.S. This was in person, not online, so I was able to say it smiling, take lots of questions, and use the questions to explain my syllabus and outline.
While Mark Weiss associates the contemporary Mexican neobaroque with a deliberate spareness of language which seems sort of like Stephen Burt's "ellipticism" to me (and I'm sort of unclear about how he gets from Sor Juana there), I'm looking at extremely marked surfaces that have a sort of radical objectivism.

If langpo is a move from language into object, then neobaroque after langpo, beyond OuLiPo and popular exercises and constraints, is also even beyond the "new form" of Ron Silliman, or Jena Osman and Juliana Spahr. Well, I would consider most of their stuff neobaroque, but not as rich as it could be. You know, what if Jena Osman's periodic table poems said something about human beings or feelings? We have chemicals. What if the Fibonacci sequence constraint in Silliman's Tjanting was important to book-making or writing?

In these poems, the poem's an object, and the words therein are objects. The form / structure and content and sound and critical theory and images are objects almost "embedded". Poems for the object's sake -- which is a return to euphuism, etc. The female Brown mfas (Lee Ann Brown, Prageeta Sharma), the younger Canadian langpos (Christian Bok, Adeena Karasick, Erin Moure), some iowa grads, Christine Hume, Harryewtte Mullen, some of Will Alexander, Walter Lew, Brenda Hillman -- it's distinct from bedient's "soft avant guard" and ubiquitous neosurrealism, but it is also distinct from other types of experimental and academic writing.


* Your group information:
Group name: catherineslist
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catherineslist
Group email address: catherineslist@yahoogroups.com

* Get started now:
Now that you've created your group, get started using it. View the group home page, post a message, invite members, share files and photos, create group calendar events, share links, create group polls, and more. It's all easy to use. Just go to the group home page now: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catherineslist
I created Catherine's List after members of my last workshop
requested that it never end. Catherine's List is intended to be a
forum for discussions about poetry writing and poetry as literature,
among other things, such as announcements.

It is my list. I approve all messages. Daly rules: no attachments,
no purple italic, no centering, judicious use of ellipses and
exclamation points, please.

How to get started? Post an introduction, a link to your home page,
a list of books you like.

While everything is archived at Yahoo, I am going to devote my blog
to messages from this list, and messages I post to other lists. I
may cc: this list on messages I post to other lists.

More soon,
Catherine Daly
Two competing events April 15!

Writers & Teachers
Patty Seyburn with students Fred Green, Holly Interlandi
7:30 pm
Barnes & Noble Booksellers
10850 West Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90064

Rocio Carlos, PEN West Rosenthal Fellow (and former student of mine), featured reading at the Cobalt Cafe
+ Open
22047 Sherman Way
Canoga Park, CA
Sign-up 8:30pm
Starts 9pm
1 drink min
Hosted by the Valley Contemporary Poets

Readings and events this week in San Diego:
"A Border Reading":

Susan Schultz, Catherine Daly, Walter Lew, and Deborah Meadows will be reading their poetry and talking about it at the ACLA (American Comparative Literature Association) Annual Conference in San Marcos, California, US, April 5, 2003.

Schultz is author of _Aleatory Allegories_, editor of _Tinfish_, and professor at University of Hawai'i. Daly is author of the forthcoming _DaDaDa_; _Tinfish_ has published poems from that ms. Lew is author of _Treadwinds_ (Wesleyan); Tinfish Press will republish his _IKTH DIKTE for DICTEE_. Meadows is author of the forthcoming _Representing Absence_ (Green Integer), author of a forthcoming Tinfish Press chapbook, and lecturer at Cal Poly Pomona.
Readings and events this week in Los Angeles:

Wendy Kramer at the UCLA Hammer Museum
Organized and hosted by Catherine Daly, this exploration of new genres brings together a wide range of performance, multi-media experiences, and music.

Friday, April 4, 7pm

Wendy Kramer's stunning image collages are poems. Visually, they are "songs without words"; each time they are read or performed, they change. Whether the collages are read on page or screen by ordinary readers and audience members, or by the poet herself in this premiere LA multi-media performance, the effect is fresh and new.


Admission to Hammer programs is FREE. No reservations are necessary, and seating is on a first-come, first-served basis. Parking is available under the Museum.

10899 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90024
310.443.7000; TTY: 310.443.7094


Readings and events this week in Los Angeles:

Gillian Conoley at Otis TONIGHT, March 12, 7 pm

ALA Poetry Conference in Long Beach -- Thursday through Sunday

Green Integer Salon, Saturday, March 15, 4 pm

Rachel Levistsky, Dan Machlin, Franklin Bruno, Sunday, March 16, Dawson's, 4 pm

Readings and events next week:

St. Patrick's Day

*Katherine Haake at Writers & Teachers at B&N Westwood, 7:30 pm*


Catherine Daly's
i.e. press