For tonight’s Writer’s Garage, come hear sections from THE URINALS' book.

That's right, The Urinals are doing a book...a documentary/memoir/oral history of the early LA Punk scene from the view of some of its most innovative artists...

Interested in hearing about the early LA punk scene?

Want to know what it was like to be the first US punk band to play in China?

How it is to be slipped acid by the Meat Puppets?

Come hear the sordid, illuminating and entertaining tales of legendary LA punks THE URINALS/100 Flowers as they read from their collective memoir/oral history-in-process. Reading tonight will be Kathy Talley Jones, John Talley-Jones and Kevin Barrett.

About The Writers Garage
We are every Wednesday. If you are a pissed off liberal, a disenfranchised conservative, conspiracy theorist, writer, thinker, rock musicfan,reader, free speech advocate, folk singer, protester, here we are.Weekly we will try to bring together writers of novels,music,magazine,radio,talk and rock to shed light on the dark area's of american life.

You are invited to join us for dinner and drinks starting at 7pm every Wednesday @ Dipiazzas Lava Lounge,5205E. Pacific Coast Highway ,Long Beach, CA 90804 - 562-498-2461

Cost $5


c/mon, you weren't initially confused when you heard about Mina?

art or nature
which genios, tradition
who is to know the names
cannon, notch, Indian
native American
Head penny, Lincoln...


nature or prop
sky line horizon
climbing pleasure
sky blue from
water, water
blue from sky -- & between --?

I wonder really about conversion -- being wholly different from being raised in a particular system in a particular place, and also the idea of a return to the root of a religion as a modern person, and the problem of cutlrual accretions as so many burrs and wads of lint.

Religions change so much in response to the other religions, folk beliefs, and philosophies in the *nations* where they spread. buddhism, christianity, was marked by encounter with philosophies. two porcupines rubbing together. is calvinism simply something logically resulting from catholicism rubbing up against a situation in geneva, etc.

it is a commonplace to dismiss "shopping for religions" and reviving and adapting folklores and beliefs long passed from active use into a completely different context
lissa wolsak, not only a goldsmith & poet but also a "thought field therapist"

TFT combines elements of acupuncture, Chinese medicine, applied Kinesiology, Cognitive Therapy and psychoanalysis. It is effective for a wide range of psychological problems including anxiety disorders, phobias, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, addictions, anger, jealousy and guilt, etc. It has also proven very effective in the treatment of physical conditions such as headaches and back pain.


this scrap bag is more about eliot, tradition, etc. from wompo

I posted an excerpt about the classic from stein's composition as uh, whatever --

annie finch: If we include radical, progressive
> systems--including,long-lost ones-- among the possibilities, maybe the
> idea of a poet using a tradition isn't so unquestionably a conservative
> idea? Couldn't there be such a thing as using a radical tradition in a
> radical way, but still gaining the benefits of using a tradition in
> terms of poetic power?

the missing "accepted and traditional" framework


> > "We may speculate, for amusement, whether it would not have been
> > beneficial to
> > the north of Europe generally, and to Britain in particular, to have
> > had a
> > more continuous religious history. The local divinities of Italy were
> > not
> > wholly exterminated by Christianity, and they were not reduced to the
> > dwarfish
> > fate which fell upon our trolls and pixies. The latter, with the major
> > Saxon
> > deities, were perhaps no great loss in themselves, but they left an
> > empty
> > place; and perhaps our mythology was further impoverished by the
> > divorce from
> > Rome. Milton's celestial and infernal regions are large but
> > insufficiently
> > furnished apartments filled by heavy conversation; and one remarks
> > about the
> > Puritan mythology an historical thinness."

ya gotta love a slam on milt; but perhaps this "he was a blind windbag" view is precisely what leads Eliot to also misunderstand blake.

also, I suppose I have always occupied a catholicism which I was born into, not adopting like noyes or eliot, where the reading of milton and blake was -- not mentioned. but also where the conversion and adoption of pagan believes and rituals was part of a quasi-nationalist catholicism esp. in western europe and also in the different eastern orthodoxies, and the influence of greek and roman mythology, with the large exception of the elusian (sp?) mysteries, being mostly that of philosophy, of Plato and Aristotle on Aquinas and Augustine.

I wonder really about his conversion to catholicism -- or a conversion to any religion -- being wholly different from being raised in a particular faith in a particular place, and also the idea of a return to the root of a religion as a modern person, and the problem of cutlrual accretions like so many burrs and wads of lint.

Buddhism and Catholicism change(d) so much in response to the religions, folk beliefs, and philosophies in the nations where they spread. It is a commonplace to hear that irish and italian and polish catholicism are all different from each other in important ways, ideas, folkways, traditions, rituals; zen never replaced shinto in japan, buddhism never replaced confucianism and china, but the religion was marked -- mostly in those countries -- by the encounter with the philosophies. two porcupines rubbing together.

what unites the diverse things that interest me and that I do is making systems, "programs" is an architect catchword now, or designing, or developing.

one of the most effective ways to do that is to design modularly, where the modules can be shared (more like sharing than borrowing or stealing or taking); another is to repurpose modules to serve diffferent ends

the entirely made thing has an appeal

but so does the brilliant application of poetry, say, to an idea, or of an idea into poetry
quotes from hd, mrl, and ronald johnson at the new book of ocean review at Eileen tabios' galatea resurrects:

HD: I thought my thought might spoil your thought.

spoil indulge, overripen?

but no, the reviewer has it right, also to keep a thought from creeping separate? not as a contagion -- actually maybe to contain one's own thoughts?

MRL: I don’t want to fall. I want to remain discrete…

MRL: what is an asked division
RJ: when the mingled frame of mind

whet NOT in the mingled mind?

MRL: compulsively light without seam or axis

whole cloth

HD: I feel the meaning that words hide…
MRL: words less tocsin than costume
HD: …little boxes conditioned to hatch butterflies

RJ: It is as if you yourself were your own onlooker

RJ: artifact rather than argument
MRL: yes what does not meld yes
RJ: sustained sequentially as to insistence
MRL: trying to make what doesn’t exist veering past clarity


> … What his genius required, and what it sadly lacked, was a framework
> of accepted and traditional ideas which would have prevented him from
> indulging in a philosophy of his own, and concentrated his attention
> upon the problems of the poet.

by ts eliot re: blake, interesting witht he catholic anthology, and an excluded convert (unlike noyes) who ws not an easily identifiablee catholic writing easily identifiable catholic verse
Why is it not possible to write Wien (english Vienna)right? Wein is the german word for Vine.

Actually, because I lived (and received mail at) Wein Hall for a year.


alfred noyes was a british-to-america and back convert to catholicism, poet (wrote some obviously imagist-esque poems and a lot of ballad-like poems like THE HIGHWAYMAN) and editor of GOLDEN BOOK OF CATHOLIC POETRY

dedicated to the mother of a young priest who dies in a Japanese prison camp during wwii

the preface contrasts chaucer (of course all pre-reformation, post-pagan poetry in english being "catholic poetry") with dante, repeating the old stereotype of the "green leafy" fresh chaucer with the more serious, political and theological dante through whom more poetry has flowed, ...

noyes is of course firmly in the shakes was a catholic camp; also, the preface mentions tracing a catholic poetry less through poets who were catholic that the SYMBOL IN POETRY, though the best poems in the anthology, imo, are ballads

extremely problematic, especially in an anthology which was made in 1946, and especially in a volume of catholic poetry after world war 2 (Noyes wrote a great deal of war poetry -- wwi and ww2), that he mentions, re: the rosettis, "racially ... they had Catholicism in their blood..." but the conflation of RACE and RELIGION

so, there is then a section of people who were catholic because they were european christians, and there is a section of poets you have heard of, Aubrey De Vere, Coventry Patmore, Adelaide Proctor, Digby Mackworth Dolben, Katharine Tynan, Louise Imogen Guiney, Padraic Colum, James J. Daly, Dorothy Hobson, and then there is a section of noncatholics which perhaps listing may help me describe: spenser, donne, smart, wordsworth, tennyson, robert browning, the rosettis, wheelock...

so. first of all, although there are many translations, it seems that only translations by catholics were allowed, but the rosettis are catholics. layered on top of these few rosetti translations is an anthology of poetry in english with "catholic themes" from the british isles (mostly), an anthology which seems pretty broad ranging and seems to omit just blake and milton and elizabeth barrett browning and yeats and joyce, while including a few random nuns and priests that would not oridinarily be included

in an attempt to continue listing obscure female poets, here are the women in this anthology:

adelaide proctor
may probyn
emily h. hickey
katharine tynan hinkson
alice meynell
Sr. M. Dorothy Ann
louise imogen guiney
katherine bregy
blanche mary kelly
ellen gilbert
sr. mary immaculate
sr. mary helen
sr. m. madeleva
sr. m. genoveva
sr. m. philip
sr. m. john fredrick
mary e. mannix
sr. mary angelita, bvm
margery cannon
sr. maris stella
mary louise hector
dorothy hobson
sr. mary st. virginia

christina rossetti
caroline hazard
linda lyon van voorhis
victoria safelle johnson
belle cooper
alice cecelia cooper

of the poets included you may not have heard of, Margery Cannon, Ellen Gilbert, Sr. Mary St. Virginia, and Francis Sweeney were anthologised from individual poem publication in the catholic magazine AMERICA (still publishing). other journals used were Spirit and the Catholic Poetry Society of America and Catholic World. Additionally, poems by Wilfrid Meynell, Alice and Belle Cooper were included, but they are acknowledged as providing editorial assistance, and all of the sr. m. or sr. marys are members of the same order under Mother M. Rose Elizabeth.

uh, as usual, there are some florences and others I have to look up
new review! of DaDaDa