posted this to WOMPO, thot I'd make it avail here too since I spent so much time on it
one thing I've done is have students find ten poems, and make copies of those for each student in class -- generally at the beginning of class -- then everybody knows a little bit about what someone is coming to the game with, plus everyone gets an anthology, and there's no permissions problem
again, online the students are making a page of links, or copying and linking -- a pretty decent lesson in MLA citation for internet resources -- which is what you need to use for online poems in your syllabus, courseware, and, of course, in your books (acknowledgements and notes) and on your cv.
I do have a book on factory school, and you might be interested in looking at what they think about copyright; the content is ok for educators to use and distribute *so long as they do not profit* (Helen pointed out that this is a grey area for writers who teach); there are a number of art works (photos I've used for book covers, lots of media at wikipedia, whole journals) being published under creative commons copyright and other copyright alternatives.
http://www.factoryschool.org/
http://creativecommons.org/
Works published abroad have different copyright considerations; for example, this is one of the reasons that the already absurdly wealthy rock stars are arguing for an extension of the already long American copyright, and for the extension of the short foreign copyrights. This is a reason there are so many great materials places like JACKET and a few Canadian sites -- on foreign soil. It is also the reason that a lot of the great pirate datbases are in Russia. I think it is fair to say as a person who works on poetry with copyright considerations that while the term-renewable system was unsupportable for different reasons, there are many ways that it was more fair to the vast majority of authors than the current long terms, since most authors do not profit, or do not profit much, after their deaths, or their families cannot profit, even modestly (say, by the sale or publication of letters and sale of archives) if NO works are in print OR in public domain. Again, the ED example: all of those poems in manuscript then became hopelessly lost in copyright protection for a seemingly interminable period of time when they were published in extremely edited form after her death. Yet, if they had remained in manuscript, they will not enter the public domain until 2011 (as all unpublished items... I think for materials written pre-1922 will unless (and of course this will probably happen in the US lest some MM sketches be free) laws change before then).
\n \nDitto, Annie: part of the argument to be made is that as much or more writing, editing, book-selling, publishing, reviewing would happen without copyright protection, or perhaps different types of considerations, but that the few who do make their living (or estates make theirs) off their creation would find it more difficult. However, part of the reason that writing before 1922 is more influential is that it is easier to disseminate(sp?), create subsidiary works, even write academic articles about (quoting extensively), etc. Maybe it is easier to look at popular music -- it takes a long time for a song to separate from its first performer (often its writer) and become a "classic." In any case, the idea of teaching very contemporary poetry -- poetry written and published within the last six years (21st Century) is to look at poetry before it has become a "classic." \n\n \nI have to admit I have very mixed feelings about this, and this is the reason I'm posting it late in the discussion (after pruning a tree, actually). I have two books online, more than 600 poems (a good portion of each published book), and one on factory school which is free to use fairly. I worked hard as a teacher to locate online materials, inexpensive materials, and rights-cleared readers in the process of teaching very innovative courses, many of them online, and would never expect student to pay full price for a single book of contemporary free verse in order to read a single poem, especially when they could pay me or the school for a rights-cleared reader (which now can be printed in nice glossy book form!), or save the money for a book they might actually want / I might recommend to that student specifically. \n\n \nI would be peeved if something I had not chosen to make available free was made available at no cost to students at a Department of Defense-supported school. I would want the opportunity to think about the chiclden of the parents, the particular poem, etc.\n",1]
);
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Ditto, Annie: part of the argument to be made is that as much or more writing, editing, book-selling, publishing, reviewing would happen without copyright protection, or perhaps different types of considerations, but that the few who do make their living (or estates make theirs) off their creation would find it more difficult. However, part of the reason that writing before 1922 is more influential is that it is easier to disseminate(sp?), create subsidiary works, even write academic articles about (quoting extensively), etc. Maybe it is easier to look at popular music -- it takes a long time for a song to separate from its first performer (often its writer) and become a "classic." In any case, the idea of teaching very contemporary poetry -- poetry written and published within the last six years (21st Century) is to look at poetry before it has become a "classic."
I have to admit I have very mixed feelings about this, and this is the reason I'm posting it late in the discussion (after pruning a tree, actually). I have two books online, more than 600 poems (a good portion of each published book), and one on factory school which is free to use fairly. I worked hard as a teacher to locate online materials, inexpensive materials, and rights-cleared readers in the process of teaching very innovative courses, many of them online, and would never expect student to pay full price for a single book of contemporary free verse in order to read a single poem, especially when they could pay me or the school for a rights-cleared reader (which now can be printed in nice glossy book form!), or save the money for a book they might actually want / I might recommend to that student specifically.
I would be peeved if something I had not chosen to make available free was made available at no cost to students at a Department of Defense-supported school. I would want the opportunity to think about the chiclden of the parents, the particular poem, etc.
BTW, all teachers, even college teachers, have $250. teaching materials-related tax deduction, one of the ones that's frequently overlooked by filers. Additionally, many companies offer teachers discounts on various things that many teachers are not aware of -- nearly free software, discounts from Office Depot, etc. --
one thing I've done is have students find ten poems, and make copies of those for each student in class -- generally at the beginning of class -- then everybody knows a little bit about what someone is coming to the game with, plus everyone gets an anthology, and there's no permissions problem
again, online the students are making a page of links, or copying and linking -- a pretty decent lesson in MLA citation for internet resources -- which is what you need to use for online poems in your syllabus, courseware, and, of course, in your books (acknowledgements and notes) and on your cv.
I do have a book on factory school, and you might be interested in looking at what they think about copyright; the content is ok for educators to use and distribute *so long as they do not profit* (Helen pointed out that this is a grey area for writers who teach); there are a number of art works (photos I've used for book covers, lots of media at wikipedia, whole journals) being published under creative commons copyright and other copyright alternatives.
http://www.factoryschool.org/
http://creativecommons.org/
Works published abroad have different copyright considerations; for example, this is one of the reasons that the already absurdly wealthy rock stars are arguing for an extension of the already long American copyright, and for the extension of the short foreign copyrights. This is a reason there are so many great materials places like JACKET and a few Canadian sites -- on foreign soil. It is also the reason that a lot of the great pirate datbases are in Russia. I think it is fair to say as a person who works on poetry with copyright considerations that while the term-renewable system was unsupportable for different reasons, there are many ways that it was more fair to the vast majority of authors than the current long terms, since most authors do not profit, or do not profit much, after their deaths, or their families cannot profit, even modestly (say, by the sale or publication of letters and sale of archives) if NO works are in print OR in public domain. Again, the ED example: all of those poems in manuscript then became hopelessly lost in copyright protection for a seemingly interminable period of time when they were published in extremely edited form after her death. Yet, if they had remained in manuscript, they will not enter the public domain until 2011 (as all unpublished items... I think for materials written pre-1922 will unless (and of course this will probably happen in the US lest some MM sketches be free) laws change before then).
\n \nDitto, Annie: part of the argument to be made is that as much or more writing, editing, book-selling, publishing, reviewing would happen without copyright protection, or perhaps different types of considerations, but that the few who do make their living (or estates make theirs) off their creation would find it more difficult. However, part of the reason that writing before 1922 is more influential is that it is easier to disseminate(sp?), create subsidiary works, even write academic articles about (quoting extensively), etc. Maybe it is easier to look at popular music -- it takes a long time for a song to separate from its first performer (often its writer) and become a "classic." In any case, the idea of teaching very contemporary poetry -- poetry written and published within the last six years (21st Century) is to look at poetry before it has become a "classic." \n\n \nI have to admit I have very mixed feelings about this, and this is the reason I'm posting it late in the discussion (after pruning a tree, actually). I have two books online, more than 600 poems (a good portion of each published book), and one on factory school which is free to use fairly. I worked hard as a teacher to locate online materials, inexpensive materials, and rights-cleared readers in the process of teaching very innovative courses, many of them online, and would never expect student to pay full price for a single book of contemporary free verse in order to read a single poem, especially when they could pay me or the school for a rights-cleared reader (which now can be printed in nice glossy book form!), or save the money for a book they might actually want / I might recommend to that student specifically. \n\n \nI would be peeved if something I had not chosen to make available free was made available at no cost to students at a Department of Defense-supported school. I would want the opportunity to think about the chiclden of the parents, the particular poem, etc.\n",1]
);
//-->
Ditto, Annie: part of the argument to be made is that as much or more writing, editing, book-selling, publishing, reviewing would happen without copyright protection, or perhaps different types of considerations, but that the few who do make their living (or estates make theirs) off their creation would find it more difficult. However, part of the reason that writing before 1922 is more influential is that it is easier to disseminate(sp?), create subsidiary works, even write academic articles about (quoting extensively), etc. Maybe it is easier to look at popular music -- it takes a long time for a song to separate from its first performer (often its writer) and become a "classic." In any case, the idea of teaching very contemporary poetry -- poetry written and published within the last six years (21st Century) is to look at poetry before it has become a "classic."
I have to admit I have very mixed feelings about this, and this is the reason I'm posting it late in the discussion (after pruning a tree, actually). I have two books online, more than 600 poems (a good portion of each published book), and one on factory school which is free to use fairly. I worked hard as a teacher to locate online materials, inexpensive materials, and rights-cleared readers in the process of teaching very innovative courses, many of them online, and would never expect student to pay full price for a single book of contemporary free verse in order to read a single poem, especially when they could pay me or the school for a rights-cleared reader (which now can be printed in nice glossy book form!), or save the money for a book they might actually want / I might recommend to that student specifically.
I would be peeved if something I had not chosen to make available free was made available at no cost to students at a Department of Defense-supported school. I would want the opportunity to think about the chiclden of the parents, the particular poem, etc.
BTW, all teachers, even college teachers, have $250. teaching materials-related tax deduction, one of the ones that's frequently overlooked by filers. Additionally, many companies offer teachers discounts on various things that many teachers are not aware of -- nearly free software, discounts from Office Depot, etc. --
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